[Ray2064]

I'm going to go to the point with this one, Fists weapon are underwhelming compared to all of the other available types.

- Horrendously low crit damage for some reason, despite the few scarce incentives to run crit amongst MA and Promos (Geldoren, Serpent Strikes , Bear's might, Scharfe) and the number of fist weapons that encourage Basic Attacking (Ymir, Fenri, Burst Claw..)

- While these do get +10 hit through Martial Artist,  it first of all is way more of a necessity than a bonus with how little the weapon type has going for it, and systematically takes 3 skill points away from MA, unlike Sword/Dags' Reliability talent which is way more....well, reliable.


- The talent of the weapon itself is mediocre too, really. Don't think I need to elaborate as of why.


-It's usually a headache to try to reach a good SWA without specialized equipment, too. No 2H or real ways to directly increase damage.


in short buff fists please

[Snake]

Fists could get an extra scaling tag to them called "Brawling", which increases the weapon's CEL scaling by 20%.

[firehawk11]

Cool, Cel scaling, I think it should be either Def/Cel/Res depending if you want to do there. I wouldn't like to see Fists being locked to needing CEL in EVERY build to be honest if you want the extra sourc3e of damage.

[Pyro]

I've been playing basically nothing but Martial Artist and its subclasses since around the start of Korvara. I do think Fists need some changes.

105% crit damage is a little low. 110% would be nice.

While a lot of swords technically have 80% base accuracy, it's more like 87 because of talents. Fists should have a base of 85% or a talent that affects their stats.

Some fists need their base power raised or better scaling, because current BIS are usually heads above them in terms of damage. Even with the nerf, things like Fenri still measure as some of the best with their extra on-hit damage simply being icing on the cake.

[Autumn]

I want to chime in to mostly say that I think that Fists are majorly in need of buffs, I think as a weapon identity they should have high base power, I also think that the base critical damage of all melee weapons should be raised to match axes (with Spiked Axehead and the talent differentiating them from the pack)

This would at least make them a lot less gapped by GUI in builds that require STR to function normally.

[firehawk11]

Where would that put AXES then? I guess I do cheese fists a little and use a burst claw since it deals FIRE damage equal to 50% Fire Attack, so doing that with Serpent strike, twin dance build. Hmmm, I guess when you need silly combos in Vergalas or Serpent strikes with 20+ KI to be staples in Martial Artist builds...Maybe there is an issue and it's not like I am actually relying on criticals to do damage just overwhelming amount of strikes on a stupid glass cannon build...Maybe this just highlights our current meta as a whole and the fact it needs a change?

However this is not the thread to discuss just how fists play into this glass cannon meta we generally put ourselves into.

[Autumn]

Where would that put AXES then?

I also think that the base critical damage of all melee weapons should be raised to match axes (with Spiked Axehead and the talent differentiating them from the pack)

A little bit of reading comprehension is all I ask for my friend.

[WaifuApple]

So, specifically beelining them into a talent and a specific weapon part to distinguish them from the others in the event of the change. I don't think that's wise, or healthy, truthfully. A weapon type's identity being optional just doesn't sit right.

[Autumn]

So, specifically beelining them into a talent and a specific weapon part to distinguish them from the others in the event of the change. I don't think that's wise, or healthy, truthfully. A weapon type's identity being optional just doesn't sit right.

"Beelining" them into a talent or specific weapon part isn't exactly correct, the talent is a bonus and not a choice, everyone will have that no matter what unless somehow they don't have 2-3 talent points to spend into their weapon mastery, and spiked axehead still faces competition with another axehead, Cutting Axehead and Curved Axehead (When people realize 10% critical damage isn't everything)

Swords/Spears/Fists do not feel as fluent in a crit build as Axes do, this is because Axes do not need to sacrifice 20-30 of their stats to achieve decent critical damage, they can just stick to their weapon scaling. This should be an achievable effect for the other melee weapons as well, should it not? What isn't healthy is the state of basic attacking needing a breakdown and optimization of every stat in the book, on average they require 3-4 more whole stats than a mage or tank. This isn't to say that GUI shouldn't be considered in these builds either, but relieving the stress of needing it to be so high to do decent damage is the intended goal.

Not even to mention, due to the aforementioned Deadliness and Spiked Axehead, this does not even really erase their identity, nor are we taking away that on average axes have the highest base powers of any other weapon in the game.

I would like to get back to the topic at hand instead of talking exclusively about axes, on average, increasing the base critical damage of other melee weapons will help them feel more rewarding in their already really short ranges, this does apply to fists, who really only get Serpent Strikes as a build path, otherwise rawdog fist crits feel very bad, with the best fist weapons being mutated Stingers or ranged fists like Chakrams.

[firehawk11]

Then let's simply up their stats then. That should fix it, can it not? Or maybe change out the talent for something more useful like extra power, critical or hit rate instead of lowering a small amount of FP per hit (Which I need to test but seems like it would support the Twin Dance/Serpent Strike/Burst Claw, build I was running...I am unsure if upping critical would be a good idea then again I should be able to do a Twin Dance build with a better weapon now that I think about it....I got to make other builds to test it.