[firehawk11]

We all know that Corrupted and Sanc do not get along however I would like to pose this get changed for once. Since SL2 is a game based on freedom of expressing a creative though in a Role-Play setting why is there a race group which is actively hurt by one of the stats which is tied to an entire Element? That would be like saying Vampires active suck if you get faith and it lowers their racials for an example. (Which is not true but what if it was?). 

I pose to allow Corrupted Races to build this fable Sanc stat just so they can build Sound Attack with the exception being Theno which entire gimmick is great. However they should not be the only corrupted limited to SOUND ATTACK. This also goes back to the point where we do need possibly new star-signs for Acid & Sound. I would not mind if this was a trait for all Corrupted races that allowed them to build Sanc but got no benefit from it outside SOUND ATTACK...

TL/DR - Corrupted shouldn't be locked out of Bard just because of a single stat that reduces the thing that you mostly want. Racials.

[Shujin]

Since Corrupted have a Lore reason as to why they do not really build San, I would propose a counter idea that Benefits everyone including Corrupted races.

Add an equivalent to Luminary Starsign for Acid and Sound damage.

This would lift this two elements into usable area, despite its few skills, and allow Corrupted to have Sound atk (even thenos) over 60. Cause lets be honest, 60 Sound atk isn't really good.

[firehawk11]

It been one of the biggest lt downs as a Shaitan player to have my racial be nerfed for wanting to play Dark Bard, which is no fun. Though on paper 60 Sound ATK seems really high for Theno it would need to go to 70-80 to be super amazing from what I found out recently from building.

[The Alpha Bat]

Yes, I remember this being a concern before even bard dropped. Dev managed to avoid this pitfall with bard/dancer/performer by only having a few things that scaled with Sound ATK. I guess it slipped his mind when designing dark bard.

Fully agreed with the freedom of expression sentiment; the thought of a class not working well with certain races leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
There's quite a few ways to remedy it in this specific case, off the top of my head:

1. A trait that allows corrupted to build SAN without the negative effect to their racials, as mentioned

2. Creation of a star sign for Sound, allowing for Luminary Element Sound, also mentioned

3. Replacing the Sound ATK scaling on dark bard with different scaling(s)

4. A bard or dark bard passive that allows a different method of stacking Sound ATK. (Would obviously have to not work alongside Sound ATK from SAN/Theno racial to avoid the opposite issue of every other race being too good with dark bard)

5. Sound ATK being disconnected from the SAN attribute, instead being raised elsewhere (Theno would also have to be touched upon)

6. Corrupted races no longer being negatively impacted by SAN at all, instead weakening/disabling their racials via a different method, likely a trait.


These are general ideas rather than specific ones because I can't be assed to fix all dark bard's problems myself. Everyone has my express permission to expand upon these methods with their own ideas. You don't even have to credit me. You're welcome.

[caliaca]

I feel like this is homogenization and that's something I'd rather avoid to be perfectly honest. Some races and abilities will always synergize more with some classes and so on and so forth, I don't actually think that's a problem.

[Pyro]

Just build SAN on your corrupted. Start playing a race because you like their lore.

[The Alpha Bat]

I feel like this is homogenization and that's something I'd rather avoid to be perfectly honest. Some races and abilities will always synergize more with some classes and so on and so forth, I don't actually think that's a problem.

Almost full disagree.

This wouldn't be a case of homogenization. There's a difference between everyone playing everything exactly the same and everyone being able to actually (successfully) play what they want. If anything, it's the opposite. Non-Theno Corrupted races would be able to keep up competitively while playing Dark Bard. That's more variety, not less. Unless your issue is with dark bard being really popular right now because that's a different issue entirely.

As for synergy, I think it very much is a problem, albeit a minor one. In this case, however, it's a larger issue because it's not about synergy. It's about anti-synergy. This isn't the same as bird races enjoying their free Gain Air with classes that like to be airborne, this is a race's and a class' core mechanics being at odds with each other. It's not a lack of bonus, it's exclusion. Being able to combine races and classes in whatever way you want and still find relative success has always been one of the game's draws and we're sort of losing that here.

Just build SAN on your corrupted. Start playing a race because you like their lore.

I've yet to see a compelling lore reason why corrupted races are worse at hurting things with sound magic than others. You can play whatever race you want for RP but that shouldn't mean you have to suffer mechanically for it.

[firehawk11]

Just build SAN on your corrupted. Start playing a race because you like their lore.

I've yet to see a compelling lore reason why corrupted races are worse at hurting things with sound magic than others. You can play whatever race you want for RP but that shouldn't mean you have to suffer mechanically for it.

I understand why the stat itself hurts Corrupted Races but the real problem here is the fact Elements (Elemental Attack) are tied to two mechanics, either a core stat or Luminary Elements but since not everything can be Luminary Element'd you cause a problem with trying to build some races as some things.

Yes, I agree some races will always be better then others but nothing should actively hinder your ability to play something compared to other combinations. A Dark Bard Corrupted should be borderline as effective as a Human minus the extra couple skill points, or as good as a Lich deciding to go Melee and not ranged. I don't see any other combination that comes to mid that is actively weakening your race/class combination outside playing a Dullahan dodge build but even that could be good.

As for homogenization, it doesn't do such a thing since it should be the expression of freedom. I would not like nor like to be made to change my race from a corrupted (Except Theno) if I want to play as a Corrupted Dark Bard since if I were to get into any PvP situations I'd be actively weaker therefor not having the same level of fun for wanting to try the newest class that Dev made for his game. That's the real point I am trying to make here.

If in PvE you can 100% get away with losing your racials and pretend you are a human with high Sanctity but at the point why not just be human? This is the biggest issue with being RP *Lore) vs Mechanics, one should be allowed even if Lore says otherwise since why lock off a small percentile of the community off from some content. Yes you could argue races do the same thing but why do any of us play races outside human? Do we like their lore or their abilities more and if it is the latter then why restrict classes under that same rule? Can you imagine if only Glykins, Phenex, Lispool humans got more bang for their buck for building Faith? What if making a Curate/Summoner Vampire actively weakened you by removing your essence pool if you built Faith, forcing you to either go grey mist or be weaker in all cases if you don't?

Some of us actively like the combat side of the SL2 and would like one group of races not to be murdered in their uniqueness for wanting to use a single class. (I'd like other examples of Races/Groups of races being actively bad for 1 or more classes, if anyone would like to give examples of such, please & thank you.)

[firehawk11]

I didn't expect to suddenly kill a Balace Fu thread like this.

[Poruku]

Simply build SAN. The whole point is that getting sanctity makes you more pure and thus eliminates your corruption traits.

As mentioned though it would be cool to get luminary sound and acid