[Turadis]

Bows do not, and for most of the game's lifespan, have never benefitted from the two-handed talent. It's often been paradoxically reccomended to dual-wield bows for full archer builds, which is pretty silly from a narrative standpoint. But it was more or less fine-ish for balance reasons, and people could just flavor their weapons differently.

But now, we have the Howling Handshot.

Due to also qualifying as a sword weapon, and being quite heavy to begin with, the Handshot benefits from the hefty +20 SWA from being two-handed. Coupled with it's very powerful 100% skill scaling, it rather blatantly outclasses every other bow option in the game. The arb rework will make it less appealing for arbs, sure (As they need to use their offhand for a special armament most of the time) but for other bow-users there is virtually no reason to use anything else, even if you have no use for a sword at all. The only real reason anyone does use alternatives is because the handshot is in such high demand (Due to blatantly outclassing every other option) that it can be difficult to acquire one.

So yeah. Now that that particular pandora's box has already been opened, I think it'd be better to just make all bows and crossbows able to benefit from Full Swing. (While Steady is certainly more thematic, it wouldn't actually make other bow options start to catch up to the handshot.)

[renowner]

Although I agree that Howling handshot invalidates most bows. . .Completely. I think its just because full swing has always been busted, and howling handshot just needs to not have it. Or crossbows in general should also nerf basic attack skills, instead of just basic attack. The crossbow 4m basic attack nerf never matters when archer already has dozens of basic attack skills with no cooldowns it can spam pretty much forever.

However I am completely against bows getting +20 Scaled weapon attack. And I am also against them getting +10-20 hit like guns do.
Currently archer passively gives bows so many free stats that it outclasses even steady on a rifle.
Guns only get +10 hit from archer.
martial artist only gets +10 hit from martial artist.
But bows?
+18 hit, +15 crit, +2 attack range passively from archer. That in and of itself outclasses steady, and possibly about equals or exceeds full swing, as ranged weapons do eat better than melee weapons a lot of the time. (And shortbows don't have any hit reduction in low range now anyway.)

And finally daggers, the other weapon type with no two hand bonuses. . . Are still ver ycompetative due to crazy scaling, crazy crit mults, inability to be parried by most parries, and the fact that their classes give them situational power bosts from the side/behind, and a crit multiplier from void assassin. Exceeding full swing when backstabbing as a void assassin easily.

(And then there's tomes that kind've get fuck all and also don't even care about the skill pool boost anymore because everyone just got 6 extra skill slots a few months ago and still don't have weapon parts even.)

I think bows are fine for now.
I think howling handshot is a problem only because two hand is pretty cracked, and shouldn't really be tacked onto ranged weapons in general.
Full swing should only apply to attacks within 1 range in my opinion. To make up for ranged just being generally better. Would then also make howling handshot way less cracked.

Giving bows two hand means they just. . .Outpower, outhit, outcrit, and outrange everything.

[Turadis]

Yeah to be frank, Handshot not getting the Full Swing bonus would accomplish what I'd like to see just as much. Either solution works for me. It just felt awkward to implement as a standalone exception to the way melee weapon classes interact with Full Swing. But that's hardly insurmountable.

[renowner]

Totally agree with that sentiment, honestly feels like an oversight to me.

[Autumn]

Handshot may be able to obtain full swing, but unlike other bows it can be parried by sword exclusive parries such as Eviter (without MA) and Stalemate. For a ranged weapon this can prove to be problematic to deal with given closing the gap to someone's rear is harder in this sense.

Handshot's ability to obtain full swing isn't the issue about Howling Handshot, its the 100% SKI scaling and high base power it offers.

I think that 2handing bows should be a thing too obviously, either by giving it the steady perk from two-handed, or by making a bow-exclusive mechanic that reduces farshot penalty for 2handing a bow or something.

[Snake]

Honestly, all weapons should have this treatment except Fists, Tomes and Guns.

You can have another hand behind a Dagger's handle to force it to pierce deeper, or hold it with two hands. (And knives are often used in dual-wielding thanks to Twin Dance, so mono-daggers can have a role.)

You obviously can effectively use a Bow better with two hands. (I never understood how you could even shoot with your hand occupied.)

Etc.

[Shujin]

Honestly, all weapons should have this treatment except Fists, Tomes and Guns.

You can have another hand behind a Dagger's handle to force it to pierce deeper, or hold it with two hands. (And knives are often used in dual-wielding thanks to Twin Dance, so mono-daggers can have a role.)

You obviously can effectively use a Bow better with two hands. (I never understood how you could even shoot with your hand occupied.)

Etc.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/A4fWFAT4Y1E/maxresdefault.jpg

Like this obviously

[Snake]

Ain't no way.