06-29-2023, 06:40 AM
In large scale teamfights there is a lot of chaos going on at every corner, I think the last thing on any non-experienced or insightful player's mind is that turn order can shift around when you kill someone (usually a game shifting and rewarding action) in such a way that lets certain members of one team double team certain members of the next time, never is this more apparent than in a 2v2 format, but it can also directly influence any teamfighting format.
This also extends to youkai being able to take their turns immediately after their owner dies, also resulting in a forced uncounterplayable double turn that the opponent has to face, leading to all sorts of hot topic and debate about who really won the fight when the summoner dies and their summons finish things off.
I don't think I need to explain the scenarios exactly as to why this is unfair but let me give at least one in recent memory this has directly influenced me:
This scenario is very common, and it absolutely impacts the setting greatly because suddenly, punishing someone out of position or co-ordinating teamwork better than the enemy team becomes an equally, if not more punishing aspect by comparison. This is the exact environment that an Evoker, a VA or a Death Knight can completely wipe the floor with people. It also fosters the exact teamfight environment I hate where both teams hyper focus down frailer characters to create a numbers advantage fast, and those frail characters often have CEL which leaves them ripe for the double turning.
This is just tedious to always be mindful of, not just for those frail characters, but for your teammates as well, suddenly, killing someone has become a decision when a VA moves before your own dodgy ally does, that decision to kill that enemy, if the VA is aware of such a fact, will kill that ally of your's, unless there is something fucky wucky going on with Hesitation, Knockdowns and the such. The point is that the enemy team actually has the advantage in that scenario. The solution of "Kill the VA first then" won't work either since whoever's after them also double turns that frail ally of your's.
I am sick of the back and forth of this, as someone who likes to play evasive characters this has become a lot of my gripe with the current system as it is. It doesn't come up all the time but when it does it just sucks because you feel very cheated, you may have positioned right for your next turn but you didn't position right for your opponent's Next Next turn after that.
So I propose that turn orders should stay (relatively) static from the moment combat starts, how to explain that would be such a method like
(assume purple has highest CEL order)
P1
B1
P2
B2
P3
B3
P-Y1 (youkai)
B-Y2
Currently, if someone like B2 were to die, then eventually (either on that turn or the next turn) someone in Purple would move last instead, what this means is that B1 knows they are moving above P1 instead, and have the momentum advantage on them temporarily.
If the Round Robin system is supposed to instill fairness between each of the parties by not allowing class combos like 4 Verglas to completely ice over the battlefield and erase entire parties, then why is it allowed to introduce unfair double turn scenarios like this.
I believe that from the very start of the match this order should be locked in, and youkai who are summon in the midst of it always go last, after all players have gone. At least in this way no one gets double turned anymore, and I get that most of the alternatives to round robin turn order can be worse, I've played Divinity there's a lot of nuance to both systems quite frankly.
As usual, thank you for reading, its been going on for a few years so I've had a lot of thoughts on the matter.
This also extends to youkai being able to take their turns immediately after their owner dies, also resulting in a forced uncounterplayable double turn that the opponent has to face, leading to all sorts of hot topic and debate about who really won the fight when the summoner dies and their summons finish things off.
I don't think I need to explain the scenarios exactly as to why this is unfair but let me give at least one in recent memory this has directly influenced me:
Quote:Blue 1 takes turn, deals damage to purple team members
Purple 1 takes turn, deals damage to blue 1, Purple 1 is cautious of Blue 2 given they have kill threat in a certain range.
Blue 2 takes turn, engages onto Purple 1 but lacks the ability to follow up.
Purple 2 takes turn, performs a combo onto blue 1 which kills them.
========Next Round===========
Blue 2 must move next, and is in full combo range of Purple 1, purple 1 dies from roughly 75% health.
Purple 2 Takes turn, turn order proceeds as normal.
This scenario is very common, and it absolutely impacts the setting greatly because suddenly, punishing someone out of position or co-ordinating teamwork better than the enemy team becomes an equally, if not more punishing aspect by comparison. This is the exact environment that an Evoker, a VA or a Death Knight can completely wipe the floor with people. It also fosters the exact teamfight environment I hate where both teams hyper focus down frailer characters to create a numbers advantage fast, and those frail characters often have CEL which leaves them ripe for the double turning.
This is just tedious to always be mindful of, not just for those frail characters, but for your teammates as well, suddenly, killing someone has become a decision when a VA moves before your own dodgy ally does, that decision to kill that enemy, if the VA is aware of such a fact, will kill that ally of your's, unless there is something fucky wucky going on with Hesitation, Knockdowns and the such. The point is that the enemy team actually has the advantage in that scenario. The solution of "Kill the VA first then" won't work either since whoever's after them also double turns that frail ally of your's.
I am sick of the back and forth of this, as someone who likes to play evasive characters this has become a lot of my gripe with the current system as it is. It doesn't come up all the time but when it does it just sucks because you feel very cheated, you may have positioned right for your next turn but you didn't position right for your opponent's Next Next turn after that.
So I propose that turn orders should stay (relatively) static from the moment combat starts, how to explain that would be such a method like
(assume purple has highest CEL order)
P1
B1
P2
B2
P3
B3
P-Y1 (youkai)
B-Y2
Currently, if someone like B2 were to die, then eventually (either on that turn or the next turn) someone in Purple would move last instead, what this means is that B1 knows they are moving above P1 instead, and have the momentum advantage on them temporarily.
If the Round Robin system is supposed to instill fairness between each of the parties by not allowing class combos like 4 Verglas to completely ice over the battlefield and erase entire parties, then why is it allowed to introduce unfair double turn scenarios like this.
I believe that from the very start of the match this order should be locked in, and youkai who are summon in the midst of it always go last, after all players have gone. At least in this way no one gets double turned anymore, and I get that most of the alternatives to round robin turn order can be worse, I've played Divinity there's a lot of nuance to both systems quite frankly.
As usual, thank you for reading, its been going on for a few years so I've had a lot of thoughts on the matter.
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