[Pyro]

As it stands, certain class combos have it too easy busting down everything in their path. Namely, martial classes with a subclass in hexer. Don't like a mage? Black bubble. Tank? Wretched oils. It's free. It's easy. It's simple. It's build a counter with no investment.

And sure, you could argue that they should build SAN. But who can reasonably build SAN in the modern day that isn't a Bard or a gimmick build? Who can build faith on their normal mage character?

I think that casting spells without a casting tool should cut the inflict rate in half. The average no WIL martial/caster will have somewhere around 120-130 status inflict (very situationally dependent), meaning that the rate suddenly becomes 60-65. You still have a chance, but it's no longer weighted completely in your favor. People should be made to invest in the relevant stats and use relevant weapons.

Or just use arcane, I guess. It reduces your damage which is an okay enough balance.

[Miller]

On one hand... this makes sense, on the other I don't... see much of a balance concern with this?

Wretched Oil is usually a damage loss without a casting implement unless they have an absurd amount of armor + DR which is usually the result of body guard.

There's a point to be had in Black Bubble but I don't particularly think martial classes utilizing hexer without a casting implement are much of an issue.

As stated in the OP, these builds often only hover around 100-140 inflict at best due to the lack of building will (usually), cutting it in half would effectively force all of these builds into a 50~60% chance at an inflict against someone with zero stat investment which would almost always run into a negative momentum trade off unless what they're trying to prevent with Black Bubble is super crucial to stop.

I just can't get behind this at all as presented. You may as well just disable the inflict if you don't have a casting implement with a penalty that huge.

[Fern]

Wretched Oil is usually a damage loss without a casting implement unless they have an absurd amount of armor + DR which is usually the result of body guard.

Yeah, this is precisely why I don't like using stuff like Wretched Oil without a casting tool. It's indeed usually better/more consistent damage to swing another button that actually does damage if they're not a super wall of death, specially if they have decent status resist (some people will build like 50-70 status resist just to screw over people with low infliction sometimes.) Off the top of my head, the only other time I think it would be worth it to do a non-casting tool WO is if someone is mega-kiting and constantly out of range (which as far as I understand is considered to be something that should not be a thing anyway.)

[Snake]

I think Hexer could use some cooldowns, especially in Black Bubble. That's too spammable. It should at least give the Get A Word In buff for people affected by the silence.

[Shujin]

Just reduce its Silence time to 2 rounds, that would give it plenty of counterplay.

But I also don't think martial classes are really a problem with it, personally.

[Fern]

Just reduce its Silence time to 2 rounds, that would give it plenty of counterplay.

But I also don't think martial classes are really a problem with it, personally.

Just wanted to mention it's already 2 rounds (even at Rank 5), which can also make the Silence infliction irrelevant if you're slower than the mage you're trying to Silence if they have Heron Feather.

[Autumn]

Mages have many ways to mitigate silences, in such ways that silences are often always better run on faster people than slower people given how heron feather interacts with the overwhelming majority of them, Wretched Oil stops dealing efficient damage once a casting tool is not in the question anymore, I have always believed the issue with WO is the damage it can deal and not the poison, as poison is really not as scary as people think it is, by itself anyway.

The most egregious parts of Hexer are it's invocations most likely, which I see none of even mentioned in this thread, they're not popular so I haven't seen them sweep matches yet, but the likes of Earthbound Vengeance and Fog can be downright nuisances, and Spirit Pain is a 1v1 setter.

Hexer is also horribly short ranged, and very combo focused, I believe a lot of the unfairness of facing one comes from how status effects are set in this game, where you're encouraged to be slow for some of them (Poison/Lingering/Burn), and encouraged to be fast for some of them as well (Silence/Inteference)

[Shujin]

Just reduce its Silence time to 2 rounds, that would give it plenty of counterplay.

But I also don't think martial classes are really a problem with it, personally.

Just wanted to mention it's already 2 rounds (even at Rank 5), which can also make the Silence infliction irrelevant if you're slower than the mage you're trying to Silence if they have Heron Feather.

Oh I thought that was just a description error cause I remembered that rank 5 had 3 rounds, it that already changed, then I really see no issue.

But I agree that its kinda sucks, how many things benefit from being slower, to the point there is no counter to them anymore, like explosion and stuff too.

[Ray2064]

Mages have many ways to mitigate silences, in such ways that silences are often always better run on faster people than slower people given how heron feather interacts with the overwhelming majority of them, Wretched Oil stops dealing efficient damage once a casting tool is not in the question anymore, I have always believed the issue with WO is the damage it can deal and not the poison, as poison is really not as scary as people think it is, by itself anyway.

The most egregious parts of Hexer are it's invocations most likely, which I see none of even mentioned in this thread, they're not popular so I haven't seen them sweep matches yet, but the likes of Earthbound Vengeance and Fog can be downright nuisances, and Spirit Pain is a 1v1 setter.

Hexer is also horribly short ranged, and very combo focused, I believe a lot of the unfairness of facing one comes from how status effects are set in this game, where you're encouraged to be slow for some of them (Poison/Lingering/Burn), and encouraged to be fast for some of them as well (Silence/Inteference)

Down with Spirit Pain please I beg thee

[Skullcatrons]

This is less infliction, and more about status resistances in general.

You're going to still get poisoned by someone even if they have their infliction halved. You still need FAI or SAN investment to just resist these inflictions in first place. Or play races immune to said inflictions of certain type.

warding enchant got buffed so hopefully it might be a consideration.