[caliaca]

Gain +20 Evade for 1 attack, 3 rounds after casting a Sylphid spell.

This is the current text and effect. 

It's bad. 

That's really bad.

This nerf consolidated a lot of evade setups so that non rogues can't really reach evade cap, something that is one hundred and ten percent necessary in the current hit meta.

I'll be honest, I think a straight up  revert is fine. Take it to 25/3 rounds again. Please. Un-centralize evades.

[Autumn]

Gain +20 Evade for 1 attack, 3 rounds after casting a Sylphid spell.

This is the current text and effect. 

It's bad. 

That's really bad.

This nerf consolidated a lot of evade setups so that non rogues can't really reach evade cap, something that is one hundred and ten percent necessary in the current hit meta.

I'll be honest, I think a straight up  revert is fine. Take it to 25/3 rounds again. Please. Un-centralize evades.

No? It got nerfed for a reason. It was way too powerful being 25 evade with the only condition of "Casting a wind spell." This condition also included Auto-enchant.

Because it's an item slot and not a class skill, it was versatile in how many builds it could apply to, while you can make the argument that Evoker gets no evade buffs, Spellthief does, and all the evade buffs it can cast are coincidentally also wind spells that work in conjunction with this, instantly capping your evade.

Coinciding with this is also the strong option of being able to get a huge evade buff from any wind spell, which when it comes to stuff like Air Pressure and Typhur, is incredibly hard to play against.

[caliaca]

Gain +20 Evade for 1 attack, 3 rounds after casting a Sylphid spell.

This is the current text and effect. 

It's bad. 

That's really bad.

This nerf consolidated a lot of evade setups so that non rogues can't really reach evade cap, something that is one hundred and ten percent necessary in the current hit meta.

I'll be honest, I think a straight up  revert is fine. Take it to 25/3 rounds again. Please. Un-centralize evades.

No? It got nerfed for a reason. It was way too powerful being 25 evade with the only condition of "Casting a wind spell." This condition also included Auto-enchant.

Because it's an item slot and not a class skill, it was versatile in how many builds it could apply to, while you can make the argument that Evoker gets no evade buffs, Spellthief does, and all the evade buffs it can cast are coincidentally also wind spells that work in conjunction with this, instantly capping your evade.

Coinciding with this is also the strong option of being able to get a huge evade buff from any wind spell, which when it comes to stuff like Air Pressure and Typhur, is incredibly hard to play against.

I understand why it got nerfed, I disagree with it. Spellthief can already cap it's evade, that's hardly a problem. 

Evade is already losing, non centralizing the evade meta just lets it only be played by Rogue subclasses.

Furthermore, for some reason, Distortion is noted as a Mercalan spell, not a wind spell. You may be thinking of Invisible weapon, which did count as a Sylphid spell. (Naturally southern wind doesn't count as a spell and it's other most common spell buff in RoP is aqua)

You may also be thinking about Fortune Wind, which is sylphid but it's 3M and Windstream merely let archers cap evade rather than permanently be under it, both of which were 3 turns which, truthfully, is not very long (and no one's running Wind Runner but like 2 people).

The versatility is what I'm arguing for. It's rather uncomfortable that only one class can really reasonably, feasibly cap evade.

I'll be real - if you're playing against a mage class that's only evade is coming from casting wind buffs you're playing really bad to not have enough hit to get past it/built really bad. And stuff like Mage + spell Thief can already cap evade regardless so I'm unsure what this changes.

[Miller]

I'm not sure if reverting the nerf to Windstream entirely is the best idea but I can definitely agree with the notion that we desperately need more accessible evade buffs across the board or generic options that are viable so that we aren't playing the same set ups that can easily cap momentum efficiently and go beyond it with debuffs.

As for the subject of this thread, Windstream Gi in its current state is pretty whatever and not really worth; I'd rather see it at the very least take multiple hits so it can be a substantial evade buff with susceptibility to multi-hits or be reverted with a cooldown of 3-4 rounds so it can at least be dispelled without it being reapplied instantly.

[caliaca]

I'm not sure if reverting the nerf to Windstream entirely is the best idea but I can definitely agree with the notion that we desperately need more accessible evade buffs across the board or generic options that are viable so that we aren't playing the same set ups that can easily cap momentum efficiently and go beyond it with debuffs.

As for the subject of this thread, Windstream Gi in its current state is pretty whatever and not really worth; I'd rather see it at the very least take multiple hits so it can be a substantial evade buff with susceptibility to multi-hits or be reverted with a cooldown of 3-4 rounds so it can at least be dispelled without it being reapplied instantly.

Yea for the record I'm fine with it being 20 evade still. If not a full revert at least let it stick.

[Senna]

A revert isn't needed, but it got nerfed pretty harshly. Compared to others, I can see why. Mage needed it anyways, as Mage has no evade buff options. We don't really talk about Rogue as Evade is still married to those classes; they can carry themselves. Yes, this Gi provided a universal option for evade builds as it also works with Youkai Evoker, Twister from Ghost, Titan Gale from Tac, and so on.

It provided many classes that lack evade options to operate even if a little. Even if we still need more items and so on that help with such.

+20 or +25 is fine; it doesn't matter since there's still a +50 cap; it's not like the game doesn't have enough evade ignores or ways to reach higher hit (Like GUI). Could always take the BOI approach. It lasted for 3 rounds and lowers in rounds each time they were attacked. So after 3 attacks, it's dismissed. Could give it a 2 rounds CD so they can't renew it right away.


Alotta food for thought.

[Autumn]

Gain +20 Evade for 1 attack, 3 rounds after casting a Sylphid spell.

This is the current text and effect. 

It's bad. 

That's really bad.

This nerf consolidated a lot of evade setups so that non rogues can't really reach evade cap, something that is one hundred and ten percent necessary in the current hit meta.

I'll be honest, I think a straight up  revert is fine. Take it to 25/3 rounds again. Please. Un-centralize evades.

No? It got nerfed for a reason. It was way too powerful being 25 evade with the only condition of "Casting a wind spell." This condition also included Auto-enchant.

Because it's an item slot and not a class skill, it was versatile in how many builds it could apply to, while you can make the argument that Evoker gets no evade buffs, Spellthief does, and all the evade buffs it can cast are coincidentally also wind spells that work in conjunction with this, instantly capping your evade.

Coinciding with this is also the strong option of being able to get a huge evade buff from any wind spell, which when it comes to stuff like Air Pressure and Typhur, is incredibly hard to play against.

I understand why it got nerfed, I disagree with it. Spellthief can already cap it's evade, that's hardly a problem. 

Evade is already losing, non centralizing the evade meta just lets it only be played by Rogue subclasses.

Furthermore, for some reason, Distortion is noted as a Mercalan spell, not a wind spell. You may be thinking of Invisible weapon, which did count as a Sylphid spell. (Naturally southern wind doesn't count as a spell and it's other most common spell buff in RoP is aqua)

You may also be thinking about Fortune Wind, which is sylphid but it's 3M and Windstream merely let archers cap evade rather than permanently be under it, both of which were 3 turns which, truthfully, is not very long (and no one's running Wind Runner but like 2 people).

The versatility is what I'm arguing for. It's rather uncomfortable that only one class can really reasonably, feasibly cap evade.

I'll be real - if you're playing against a mage class that's only evade is coming from casting wind buffs you're playing really bad to not have enough hit to get past it/built really bad. And stuff like Mage + spell Thief can already cap evade regardless so I'm unsure what this changes.

Its fine to buff it, the current effect is ass, but I am mostly disagreeing with reverting it, that effect was far too powerful. There's no way it was balanced, and no I am not talking about just fortune wind, I am also talking about Smoke Screen, you can also chip in other incredible spellthief spells like Confusion and Create Shade while we're at it.

There in lies the fault in a +50 cap, its very difficult to get to, with evade being rated so highly now, but also extremely unforgiving towards standard setups that lack these buffs, I'd sooner propose a lower cap so that Evade can be easier to obtain. Unless you want the same issue arising with hit instead, where there's not enough hit to reasonably hit through evade.

[caliaca]

People rate evade highly right now?

[Caboozles]

Gain +20 Evade for 1 attack, 3 rounds after casting a Sylphid spell.

This is the current text and effect. 

It's bad. 

That's really bad.

This nerf consolidated a lot of evade setups so that non rogues can't really reach evade cap, something that is one hundred and ten percent necessary in the current hit meta.

I'll be honest, I think a straight up  revert is fine. Take it to 25/3 rounds again. Please. Un-centralize evades.

No? It got nerfed for a reason. It was way too powerful being 25 evade with the only condition of "Casting a wind spell." This condition also included Auto-enchant.

Because it's an item slot and not a class skill, it was versatile in how many builds it could apply to, while you can make the argument that Evoker gets no evade buffs, Spellthief does, and all the evade buffs it can cast are coincidentally also wind spells that work in conjunction with this, instantly capping your evade.

Coinciding with this is also the strong option of being able to get a huge evade buff from any wind spell, which when it comes to stuff like Air Pressure and Typhur, is incredibly hard to play against.

I understand why it got nerfed, I disagree with it. Spellthief can already cap it's evade, that's hardly a problem. 

Evade is already losing, non centralizing the evade meta just lets it only be played by Rogue subclasses.

Furthermore, for some reason, Distortion is noted as a Mercalan spell, not a wind spell. You may be thinking of Invisible weapon, which did count as a Sylphid spell. (Naturally southern wind doesn't count as a spell and it's other most common spell buff in RoP is aqua)

You may also be thinking about Fortune Wind, which is sylphid but it's 3M and Windstream merely let archers cap evade rather than permanently be under it, both of which were 3 turns which, truthfully, is not very long (and no one's running Wind Runner but like 2 people).

The versatility is what I'm arguing for. It's rather uncomfortable that only one class can really reasonably, feasibly cap evade.

I'll be real - if you're playing against a mage class that's only evade is coming from casting wind buffs you're playing really bad to not have enough hit to get past it/built really bad. And stuff like Mage + spell Thief can already cap evade regardless so I'm unsure what this changes.

Its fine to buff it, the current effect is ass, but I am mostly disagreeing with reverting it, that effect was far too powerful. There's no way it was balanced, and no I am not talking about just fortune wind, I am also talking about Smoke Screen, you can also chip in other incredible spellthief spells like Confusion and Create Shade while we're at it.

There in lies the fault in a +50 cap, its very difficult to get to, with evade being rated so highly now, but also extremely unforgiving towards standard setups that lack these buffs, I'd sooner propose a lower cap so that Evade can be easier to obtain. Unless you want the same issue arising with hit instead, where there's not enough hit to reasonably hit through evade.

Evade is kind of in a mediocre spot where most classes have ways to neuter your evade (Tons of classes get magnetize, VA can obscure watchful eye, so you really can't prevent them from getting a flank unless you cheese terrain, glowing), there are autohits EVERYWHERE, or they have enough hit and hit buffs to reliably get something like 250+ hit easy.

Now, don't get me wrong. Evade can be very strong, but a lot of what is being said here is "Spellthief is strong".
So isn't the problem here ST, not evade? You reduce the +50 cap and you aren't making other evades any stronger. They're still getting clubbed like baby seals by mobs with 85 skill, or people who can autohit you for "go die now" levels of HP. Anyone who isn't an ST will stay suffering.

[FaeLenx]

Its fine to buff it, the current effect is ass, but I am mostly disagreeing with reverting it, that effect was far too powerful. There's no way it was balanced, and no I am not talking about just fortune wind, I am also talking about Smoke Screen, you can also chip in other incredible spellthief spells like Confusion and Create Shade while we're at it.

There in lies the fault in a +50 cap, its very difficult to get to, with evade being rated so highly now, but also extremely unforgiving towards standard setups that lack these buffs, I'd sooner propose a lower cap so that Evade can be easier to obtain. Unless you want the same issue arising with hit instead, where there's not enough hit to reasonably hit through evade.

People use smoke screen? I guess it is the best hit debuff that has a 0 turn effect duration unless you also somehow chain in immobilize.