[caliaca]

Hey guys,

I got sort of encouraged to make this thread after discussing with some big PvPers in the updates channel. The idea of this is to talk in general about the current meta, what changes you'd like to see, why you'd like to see them, and why.

Below will be a list of abilities that people gennerally see as overwhelming in some way or too strong, either in 1s or 4s. There will also be tier lists for both classes and races.

Nothing about this is definitive, it is intended entirely as a discussion point. 

Enjoy and LET US HAVE IT!



SOLSPHERE
RAPID KICK
CASTER RANGER
HAWK GALE/WOLF HOWL (SORTA)
GRENADE LAUNCHER
PACIFISM
ELVES
1V1 WILD RIDE
IMPURE ELEMENT
IDOL STEP + DANCER DAMAGE
WHITE PRISON (IN EVENTS)



S: Naga, Leporidae, Phenex, Shaitan, Redtail
A: Glykin, Corbies, Elf, Paps,  Umbral, Wyvern, Doriad, Human, Salamandra (maybe?), Felidae, Heron
B:  Chimera, Grimalkin,  Theno,
C: Lupine (Or low B), Mice, Oracle (Situationally higher, just bad versatility), Appy, Reaper
D:  Gama  (non attune)
E: Hyattr, Omina
F:

1s:
S:  Ranger, Crit Druid, Ghost, Rune Mage, Dancer, Verg, Engineer, SB
A:  MG, Priest, AQ, Kensei, Firebird, Evoker, Hexer, Ruler, Monk, Boxer, VA, ST, BK, DH, Bonder
B: Arb, Cast Druid, DB,  GS, SS
C: Performer, Tact,
D: LB
F:

4s.
S:  Ranger, Priest, RM, Verglas, Engineer, SB, Evoker, Hexer, Caster VA,
A: Arbalest, MG, AQ, Caster druid, FB, Dancer, Performer, DB, ST, BK, Tact, DH
B: Crit Druid, Ghost (sorta?), Kensei, Monk, Boxer, Crit VA, Bonder, SS
C: LB, Ruler, GS
D:
F:

[Collector]

I've always been under the group that thinks elves are fine and the flat +50 lives rent free (just make it occur after multiplicative mods like Detailed Care if, if anything), but this is for the point of discussion. My two cents on a few things here;

• This meta was fun, but it has rapidly grown stale. I watched Druid release, came back to find some teamfights, and was greeted with three enhanced Solpheres, a cherry blossom, and some poor guy who didn't have either and was dead on the floor. Light Resistance is now the most popular and effective resistance because ~40% or more of the game is either Priest or Solblader. I'm running Crystal Mirror because I get that much value out of it.
  

• Wild Ride is dealing upwards of 700 difficult to reduce damage because of on-hits. W-why?
  

• Dancer is still Dancer, has two ways to remove immobilize/frozen, Interference, Charm, Worn Out, Two Heals, and stands amongst the pinnacle of what a 1s build can do by default. What's worse, Dancer/DBs Unholy Diver still has damage potential measured in thousands. With an s.
  

• This.
  

• I don't get it, I DON'T get it, why is he allowed do THAT? I AM dying off EVERY hit. His Solsphere- oh my God, HOW do you contest Toko Solsphere?? I have to SWING at this BITCH. And dude- DUDE, he gets the world off Solsphere, he already fucking killed you last patch if he hit Solsphere, why is it like that? I don't understand, my character doesn't fucking WORK. This dude is SLAMMING FUCKING BUTTONS. HE HASN'T BEAT ME IN OVER A YEAR AND A HALF. HOW? I DON'T GET IT. THIS CHARACTER IS NOT OKAY- I, I honestly honestly my character can fucking blow for the rest of time THEY NEED TO SHOOT SOLBLADER, I DON'T- OH MY GOD WHAT THE FUCK WERE THEY THINKING? I DON'T GET IT. OH MY GOD. NONE OF THESE PLAYERS ARE NICE. OH MY GOD- well Cab Cab is nice but WHAT THE FUCK. OH MY GOD. Anyways it was a good time guys.
  

I pray for shakeups.

[Ray2064]

ADD RABBIT LEAP I HATE RABBIT LEAP (A set CD would be fine,2-3 turns, I think making it SAN-based is a pretty bad idea since that'd hurt critters more than anyone else)

I am also actually for a nerf of archer hit buffs of sorts, if only because 270 hit from a mid-ranged weapon isn't really something any evade can be expected to fight against. Like, you could actually pluck 10 actual Hit (which is huge, mind) and the evadie'd still be at a disadvantage.


Rapid Kick with Bladed Soles is pretty fucking awful too but has gone under the radar with everything going on, though I wouldn't want to kill it entirely. Maybe make Bladed Soles lesser on it, somehow

Also fucking kill Spirit Pain that skill should not exist in it's current state. PLEASE (Also, the fact people can no longer see if they'll be affected by the status for the round is also kind of weird)

Summons' turn order deserves to die. Actually. I'm not sure why it works the way it does, but it's kind of just scummy at best to face.

[caliaca]

I don't get it, I DON'T get it, why is he allowed do THAT? I AM dying off EVERY hit. His Solsphere- oh my God, HOW do you contest Toko Solsphere?? I have to SWING at this BITCH. And dude- DUDE, he gets the world off Solsphere, he already fucking killed you last patch if he hit Solsphere, why is it like that? I don't understand, my character doesn't fucking WORK. This dude is SLAMMING FUCKING BUTTONS. HE HASN'T BEAT ME IN OVER A YEAR AND A HALF. HOW? I DON'T GET IT. THIS CHARACTER IS NOT OKAY- I, I honestly honestly my character can fucking blow for the rest of time THEY NEED TO SHOOT SOLBLADER, I DON'T- OH MY GOD WHAT THE FUCK WERE THEY THINKING? I DON'T GET IT. OH MY GOD. NONE OF THESE PLAYERS ARE NICE. OH MY GOD- well Cab Cab is nice but WHAT THE FUCK. OH MY GOD. Anyways it was a good time guys.

But for real as the creator of the thread and de facto genius (lmaooo) light damage is so god damned prevalent and offensive based priests are eating shit due to solbalder solblading all over the place.

[Poruku]

I'm certainly a proponent of a balance philosophy that favors frequent updates, especially small buffs to unused and old things, and occasional nerfs to oppressive things. Even small numerical changes can sometimes bring terrible strategies into usable territory, so it's always nice to see that happen to a meta. And often, oppressive builds essentially prevent some other builds from being relevant, so a nerf can unexpectedly bring fresh things as well.

Of course, SL2 probably doesn't have something like winrate analytics. It would still be awesome to see some changes based on player feedback, but it also gives me an idea. If we had frequent pvp mini tournament events in-game that are automated, this could also help gather data by recording the results of each fight and giving dev a bit of a look into what's being used. This is of course on top of all the fun such a thing would bring to the pvp scene. I trust that dev wouldn't blindly nerf whatever is highest winrate either.

[Rendar]

I dodge every move the Solblader throws at me.

I still take 300+ damage as a dodgie because I dared to exist within 8 tiles of their enhanced solsphere.

(I would have taken 800+ if I didn't dodge)

[Entropy]

Hawk Gale and Wolf Howl are mostly fine, Hawk Gale in particular has an absurdly high easily accessible damage ceiling by anyone with CEL and Guile, a pair of stats that are commonly tied together.

Just give it the 25% crit damage treatment, it has plenty of other boons anyways.

Wolf Howl can stay the same. Sound attack isn't quite as easy to access unless you're a theno.

[Autumn]

Hawk Gale and Wolf Howl are mostly fine, Hawk Gale in particular has an absurdly high easily accessible damage ceiling by anyone with CEL and Guile, a pair of stats that are commonly tied together.

Just give it the 25% crit damage treatment, it has plenty of other boons anyways.

Wolf Howl can stay the same. Sound attack isn't quite as easy to access unless you're a theno.

I mostly just wanna second this, Druid overall is pretty fine, though with some GUI they deal an absolute fuck ton of damage with their crittable spells like Hawk Gale, Hawk Gale has such good push back capability that I'm finally considering knockback immunity as a pretty meta shoe slot choice right now again. I agree with Ent that it's mostly just the uncapped crit damage that really pushes Hawk Gale to it's limit. I want to compliment the intention of including Purity Edge in the class' design, as I don't see any other ridiculous crit/hit rates within the class.

As for my takes on balance, I've said what I wanted to say in the survey, I can repeat here that I think melee classes are weak and ranged characters run the game, this is definitely not an unknown though.

That's all i need to say, I'm hoping more skills/item choices will bridge the gap between the two, I am patient otherwise.

[Trexmaster]

TL;DR

This post is going to be a bit of a doozy. A succinct TL;DR would be pretty difficult so here's an outline of my post to skip around to the parts you care about.

Each part will be spoiler tagged so your scrollbar isn't immediately nuked on loading this page.

Foreword (A brief overview of my thoughts on the matter of balance)
The List (Giving my opinion on the subjects listed in the OP)
What Makes the Meta Meta? (Defining the criteria by which Classes/Races will be analyzed to determine their worth in the meta) ((skip this if you feel like you don't need an explanation of what the terms I'll be using mean))
The Tiers (Defining what my funny letters mean)
The Salty Sigtoon (Using the aforementioned criteria to evaluate Races on their ability to perform in the current meta)
TSS: Classes (Just Archer and its promos for the time being)
To Be Continued (For Now)

Foreword

I like having more options. I do not like having less options because either options are removed due to being nerfed so badly that they cannot be used, or new options are introduced that completely overshadow older options.

As we continue to see the gradual powercreep in recent updates, like the OP already touched upon, very few setups stand the test of time and can continue to function in the ever changing environment of PvP, and arguably even PvE when comparing performance value.

Thus I'd rather see more things brought up to par with the current meta than having them obliterated. While there will always be outliers that need to be brought down I've had one too many fun setups I've enjoyed get irreparably broken in the time I've played. It's been sad to watch how things have progressed recently. Those who dare to play outside the meta get to kiss the floor for 1-2 hours/get unceremoniously steam rolled if they're mercifully in a 1v1. The dominant setups diminish in variety until all you see is the same 4-5~ builds if that. While this is far from an unseen pattern in the game's history, I have not felt the disparity as much as I have in more recent updates.

The margin by which a build is functional grows thinner as those at the top acquire more answers and higher overall power.

I believe that the best way to illustrate the extent of power creep in recent updates and how it has impacted build variety is to lay out what exactly defines what is 'meta'. What defines answers, what defines power. Most people likely think 'big number', whether it be damage or DR/eHP. It's only a little more nuanced than that but at the end of the day it really is just that sometimes.

Before I start ranting about that though, I'll quickly address the talking points laid out in the OP.

The List

SOLSPHERE -

It should be a field object, perhaps with like 40-50 HP. As it stands it has no real counter outside zoning the Solblader which bar putting Immobilize on them is pretty difficult for the majority of classes considering they're chock full of movement + damage skills.

So you're going to be getting a solsphere dribbled on you whether you like it or not, more often than not. God help you if they're actually hitting you and dealing damage with the skills they're using.

It is effectively a mobile 3x3 cinder tile. All the problems with old cinders rear their ugly head here, except instead of the meta being around how many tiles you can toss someone, it's in how many times you can throw them through it. Which Solblader has baked in Combination Fighter to make it easier to do without any outside support.

Going on with the cinder comparison, consider: 100% fire ATK cinders are very rare. Only Blazing Execute has 100% cinders, off the top of my head. Solsphere is a 100% cinder tile that gets a flat 17-25 damage tacked onto it. That never expires and cannot be removed, and lacks the counterplay that cinders have (flamewalk, tile effect ignores ala Ghostwalker/Kirosh/Sea Stride).

Not even going into the fact you can change them into Lightning damage to exploit Soaked.

RAPID KICK -

Tune down Bladed Soles and Rapid Kick loses a lot of its edge immediately. As it stands Bladed Soles amplifies Rapid Kick's damage by roughly 50% for most builds. A fair compromise could be to make the damage higher but only allow it to apply once for things like Rapid Kick.


CASTER RANGER -

As I've heard suggested before, having Annorum stack to 12 or so instead would be a start to slowing down caster Ranger a bit to have it be more in line with, well, everyone else. Cherry Blossom is its own can of worms. I cannot fathom what Dev was thinking allowing Rangers to slap a race on people on a button that is already frontloaded with so much as is. It is global. It is a heal that also inflicts damage. There are very few if any methods to remove it, and it is a dense object that displaces.

HAWK GALE/WOLF HOWL (SORTA) -

I sorta think the easy solution here is to make them flat 25% damage crits like everything else that's a non-basic skill that can crit. Not much more to say here since I haven't played with Druid much at all.

GRENADE LAUNCHER -

I do not know how Grenade Launcher has survived untouched for the 7-8 years it has. It is 1m, ignores all forms of DR other than Fire resist (it being able to become hellfire is/should be a bug.), and is an AoE with only a 1 round cooldown. It is by almost all accounts one of if not the best damage option in the game. Against targets with minimal to no DR it's roughly on par with your average 3m damage skill. Once you start running into any amount of DR Grenade Launcher only gets better and better, to the point where very few if any skills can remotely compete.

I'm not sure how you'd alter it to maintain its identity while not gutting it. It can afford to do a bit less damage and it'd still see use since it's 1m. If you shaved off say, about 25-30% of its current damage output I'd say it'd be OK. That way it starts off a bit less efficient momentum wise compared to a 3m damage move, then starts to gain value as DR values go up.

PACIFISM -

I have a love hate relationship with this playstyle. I believe it's important to not kill it off entirely since having a dedicated healer is not something I'd like to see vanish in the face of the more modern off-healer setup being prevalent in the meta. If Pacifist healers get gutted, all we'd ever see are Druids/Rangers/Solbladers sitting in for those builds.

We already got The Cross as a giant middle finger to this, I'm unsure how much more we want to punish them.

Yet I understand it is very frustrating to wind up in a 4v4 where one side has a pacifist and the other doesn't. You almost always lose that matchup if you cannot catch out the healer or otherwise prevent their healing. Though like I said, if pacifists become unviable team comps will morph into having 2-3 off healers instead, strangling build variety even further. Pacifists are nice in that they let people play less viable things into difficult content. I'd hope for that to be retained somehow if they do come under the nerf gun's line of fire.

ELVES -

Sorta the same deal as above. They're almost always the above to capitalize on the more frequent heals. Not much new to say here, it's the same topic essentially.

1V1 WILD RIDE -

The return of the old issues we had with multi-hit guns. With guns, again. Simple solution is lower the damage dealt to the same target. Pretty cut and dry. Yeah, making 6+ attacks on the same person for 3m is going to do a lot of numbers.

IMPURE ELEMENT -

So many things have been nerfed around Impure Element, someday it may get nerfed itself. Adding over 50% extra elemental ATK that most characters can feasibly get results in massive damage increases. Around 25-60%~ more damage that has 100% uptime if you don't expend your Void Energy, and even still not everything that benefits from it will incur the self-damage.

The only counterplay is to be able to inflict the user of it with a different element type (that's valid for impure) before they can take their turn, which isn't always an option. So more often than not Impure Element goes uncontested.

I think it'd be best if Impure Element became less volatile in return for having its numbers tuned down.

Rough idea: make it go off your Starsign instead and give you Void Energy/2 ELE ATK instead, causing the appropriate element type unabsorbable damage equal to Void Energy per round. Numbers can be adjusted but it'd not only make it more flexible but its impact would be mitigated and its price would be steeper for most builds.

If people's first thought is shitting their pants at the idea of a healer getting +30 Light ATK for this, another possible idea: Permanent duration cursed wounds instead of damage c:. It'd have to be a reasonable number of course but I think that'd be funny and fit the theme of Void Assassin pretty well. To avoid it killing you permanently it could disable itself after reaching Void Energy * 10 LVL cursed wounds, then become non-permanent/dispellable. Just spitballing here.

IDOL STEP + DANCER DAMAGE -

We've tried so many times to offer reasonable alternatives to what Idol Step is doing right now. We can only hope that someday Dev looks at one and implements it. Until then we suffer.

To reiterate many other's gripes and my own: it needs to be altered to encourage hitting multiple targets, enemy and ally alike, rather than massively favoring piling both effects onto single targets.

WHITE PRISON (IN EVENTS) -

No one has fun with this one no matter which way you cut it. Either it's invalidated or it invalidates. One change I can think of to try and make both parties happy is that the White Prison tiles could not be dense, rather, they inflict Slow/Immobilize when walked over and stop movement like a triggered Rogue trap does. That way it still performs the desired job of slowing down the enemy advance whilst not breaking the mob's AI entirely.

What Makes the Meta Meta?

Simple answer: Answers. What is an answer? I define an answer in this context as an option a build has to resolve a potential threat posed by the enemy. Threats being things such as debilitating status effects, damage output, or otherwise anything that can potentially swing a fight such as movement or repositioning.

Long answer:

I will lay out, to the best of my ability, the majority of what one may require answers to in order to succeed. Then I will go through every class/race and determine its ability to answer these things.

1. Damage

Straight and to the point, how much damage something can output. The median is roughly 100~ eHP damage per 1m spent on an action. The higher above this, the more meta you are, and vice versa.

2. Healing

Some battles are infeasible to complete without some form of healing as a result of facing down more eHP than you can reasonably chew through before yours runs out. Optimal healing needs to match or outpace damage. As it does not contend with DR, if you can reach anywhere near 100 HP healed per 1m, you are likely winning the race.

3. Status Effects

These can be further broken down into different types of statuses, for this section, statuses will only be judged if they are NOT damage/healing. Poison still falls under Damage, regens still fall under Healing.

3a. Movement Lock

This subset of statuses (Frozen, Immobilize, Clumsy, etc) can completely counter some builds if unanswered. Having answers to these can make or break a build.

3b. Interference

Healing reduction statuses like The Cross also fall under this to an extent but until it's homogenized Interference means Interference. This status is how fights of attrition are won or lost.

3c. Knockdown

Losing half your momentum can lose you enough tempo to cost you the fight, especially if it came off a move that dealt equal to if not more than average damage.

3d. Charm

DR galore. Whether it is by its ability to force enemies to take damage for you at random, or straight up reducing the damage they can deal to you, Charm does a lot to make a fight an uphill battle for those susceptible to it.

3e. Hesitation

The bane of basic attackers. Most often seen on Exaggerate that almost everyone takes to fuck over basic attackers in PvP. It often manifests as an albeit low chance to have a basic attack fail to activate at all, thus hard countering that subset of builds if they lack an absolute answer to it.

3f. Silence

The bane of casters. Usually. Many methods exist to remove or otherwise dampen the effects of Silence but if unanswered entirely removes one's ability to use Spell type skills.

3g. Confusion

The bane of supports. In large fights, if unanswered, makes for nigh unwinnable scenarios where only one side can effectively use AoE attacks, whilst also making allies unable to provide beneficial effects to one another.

3h. Everything Else (Debuffs)

The ability to inflict and remove (non-evade) statuses of varying flavors. Things like Burn, Wear Down, Riprun, Fray, Buster Cannon, anything that helps contribute to damage somehow. All of these roughly fall under a similar umbrella as they serve the same purpose and very few abilities exist that specifically target these kinds of debuffs, thus relying on universal cleanses. Very rarely do these types of statuses determine the outcome of a fight, but being able to effectively apply and or remove them can be impactful nonetheless.

3i. Everything Else (Buffs)

The ability to inflict and remove (non-evade) BUFFS. Purging buffs is extremely potent, and applying them is vital for the staying power of a team. Most builds have some kind of rotation that involves applying at least one or two buffs to themselves before they're at full capacity and their build is online, not always being a hit/evade buff. This metric is more weighted by one's ability to remove than apply but if a class/race has particularly potent buffs it may score high here.

4. Evade

One of the primary forms of damage reduction in the game that can potentially negate attacks entirely that are susceptible to it. It is primarily a filter nowadays, as meta builds tend to either build so much hit they never care about Evade or they simply bypass it altogether. This is a check that a build must pass in order to function in the meta, and among the first things that will cause a build to be consider unviable if it cannot surmount high Evade.

4a. Evade Buffs

Evade is balanced around almost always hitting the +50 bonus cap in combat. If a build cannot achieve this it will more often than not fail and wind up getting hit frequently even by suboptimal setups. This category also takes into account Hit Debuffs, which are rare thus not worth their own category.

5. Damage Reduction

Innate DR is determined by one's DEF/RES stats for Physical/Magical damage respectively. DR is the key to achieving high levels of eHP, exponentially increasing one's survivability if not surmounted in some way. In the modern meta stacking a high number of DRs makes for the most effective tanks. Simply having high DEF/RES is the expectation, not the exception. As 3i includes DR debuffs 5 will only encompass a class/race's ability to provide itself or others DR, not strip it.

6. Hit

The counterpart to Evade. If this number is not at least 230-240~ you are going to be very sad if you run into most meta Evade builds if you lack a means by which to bypass it. Evade ignores are tied into this score, and will be mentioned if they're a significant factor.

6b. Hit Buffs

Unlike Evade Hit doesn't always need to be +50 capped to feel good, and it's very difficult to hit +50 outside buttons like Attack Formation. The most common means by which to acquire more hit is simply Flanking, and setups that can easily get free flanks (Flip Shot, Pinball Strike, Vanishing Strike, etc) will score high here. Evade Debuffs are taken into account here much like how the Evade category is done, more so because it is more common to strip or otherwise penalize Evade than it is to buff one's hit outside Flanking.

7. Mobility

Having a 1m movement option immediately makes this category an S. Mobility is determined by how far and how easily one can move themselves or others. Range is a thing, and preventing a build from being in range or being able to stay in your own range is victory by itself.

8. Zoning

Controlling portions of the map can be done by threatening enough damage OR by simply making moving to that portion of the map infeasible if not quite literally impossible with effects such as showcased in a post above of an entire map coated in rock pillars. Having higher average range of one's abilities can contribute to one's ability to zone out other builds and/or prevent themselves from being zoned.

The Tiers

Now that we've defined what criteria we're measuring the meta by, it's time for a tier list of my own.

Evaluations will be given in a letter format of S, A, B, C, D, E. + may be used for cases where it's difficult to pin it solely in that tier. For most categories determining this numerically and objectively is difficult (my numbers will be a bit off so bare with me), so exact criteria will only be defined for a few categories. A quick and easy translation for these evaluations is as follows:

S: The best in the game, no questions asked.

Damage - 175+ eHP damage per momentum, or otherwise among the highest output.
Healing - Will not be numerically judged due to cooldowns being a large factor in output, so its tier will be an overall indicator of how much healing a class/race is capable of supporting over time.
Evade - Hits +50 cap within 3m or less, can otherwise achieve even further with hit debuffs.
Hit - Hits +30 within 3m or less, can otherwise achieve even further with momentum efficient flanking opportunities and/or evade debuffs.
Mobility - Has a 1m move or can otherwise cross large stretches of the map consistently, bonus points if it can carry allies.
Zoning - Can lock off the entire map if allowed to.


A: Just shy of the best, still used frequently as they can reasonably compete. This is where being 'meta' begins.

Damage - 150-175 eHP damage per momentum.
Evade - Hits +50 cap within 3m.
Hit - Hits at least +20-30 bonus hit within 3m, Flanking included only if they have access to a momentum efficient flank ala Flip Shot.
Mobility - Has a 1m move, or otherwise has movement abilities that also inflict damage to provide efficient gap closers, if not offering tempo via buffs.
Zoning - Can lock off large areas of the map, sectioning off upwards of 7-8 range around themselves.

B: Not quite meta but also not terrible when compared to what is meta, but not the absolute best.

Damage - 125-150 eHP damage per momentum.
Evade - Hits +50 cap within 6m.
Hit - Hits +30 within 6m, Flanking included only if they have access to a momentum efficient flank ala Flip Shot.
Mobility - Can buff its own MOV or otherwise has movement abilities with at least 7 range.
Zoning - Can discourage approach in a momentum efficient manner ala Quick Slide Trickery.

C: The baseline to be considered viable at all. If you can't manage this you should reconsider, or compensate elsewhere.

Damage - 75-125 eHP damage per momentum.
Evade - Hits +50 cap within 9m.
Hit - Hits +30 within 9m, Flanking included.
Mobility - Can achieve at least 6 MOV or otherwise has access to a 7 range movement ability.
Zoning - Has 6 or more threat range, and/or can create disadvantageous terrain.

D: Below acceptable, you shouldn't be here unless you're minmaxxing in some regard.

Damage - 50-75 eHP damage per momentum.
Evade - Hits +50 cap within 12m.
Hit - Hits +30 within 12m, Flanking included.
Mobility - Can achieve at least 6 MOV or otherwise has access to a 7 range movement ability.
Zoning - Has at least 5 threat range.

E: Either cannot do this at all or is otherwise terrible at it.

Damage - 0-50 eHP damage per momentum.
Evade - Has no evade buffs at all.
Hit - Has no hit buffs at all and lacks any efficient means by which to flank a target for more hit.
Mobility - Has no movement skills and cannot buff MOV or otherwise relocate allies/enemies.
Zoning - Has 4 or less threat range.

The Salty Sigtoon

Now we can finally lay everything out. I'll start by going over every race. Humans will be lumped together since they only differ in their base stats.

NOTE: For numerically evaluated categories races will be judged differently, unless they somehow manage to match a class. In which case they're likely going to be S. Specifics will be noted for the evaluation.

Human -

Damage - S

Divine Eyes is 300 base DR ignoring slash damage. Divine Ease made this free. With Ninjustu, if you've an item slot to spare you can whip out a shuriken for free and execute someone from an average of 30%~ HP, especially effective against those with otherwise high eHP.

The price of 10% HP is paltry for how much Divine Eyes can give you when it's relevant, though the WIL tax can negatively impact some builds enough to discourage buying it.

Humans don't have anything else that would score in other categories.

KAELENSIA

Hit - S

All Kaelensians get Golden Eyes which negates Blind's penalty to hit with sufficient SAN investment. So by default they're an S for Hit.

Lupine -

Damage - C

Its instinct gives it a tiny boost to STR/WIL and War Cry can apply Hunted whilst doing some AoE damage. It isn't awful and can in some rare instances be an efficient move.

Damage Reduction - C

Tiny stat buffs to DEF/RES from instinct offer an average of 1-2%~ DR on tanks or more if you didn't soft cap. It's free real estate.

Corbie -


Damage - C

Whilst they have no Instinct bonus, they get a tiny bit of flat bonus damage while airborne, which they want to be anyways for their Hit bonus.

Hit - S

Having any amount of bonus Hit on a race is huge. Corbies get a flat +10 for being airborne, which combined with having Blind immunity makes them among the best for Hit oriented builds.

Evade - B

Ease of access to airborne allows for synergy with Windstream without having to sacrifice an item slot or otherwise rely on a class.

Mobility - B

Having access to a 1m airborne combined with the tile effect negation allows Corbies some freedom when it comes to certain movement skills like Winged Serpent and bypassing some attempts at zoning that involve effect tiles like cinders or ice sheets.



Phenex -

Healing - A

High marks for healing as Phenex gains access to a revive that does not incur Badly Beaten stacks, allowing for allies to be repeatedly revived without penalty so long as the Phenex gets their cooldown back in time. Not always useful if your teammates don't actually die but great when it comes into play.

Evade - B

See Corbie.

Mobility - B

See Corbie. Requires traits to gain full functionality.

Damage Reduction - S

Perhaps the best sustain from a race in the game, being able to self-revive on death (more than once potentially) makes Phenex difficult to put down when built with high DR.

Heron -

Healing/Hit/Evade - D/S/C

Ancient Song can perform in one of these categories via trait selection. Typically you'll spend only 1m on it for the lowest boost of 10, which can still be very impactful for Hit, less so for Evade, and very negligible as a heal but it's better than nothing.

Mobility - B

See Corbie.

Felidae -

Damage - A

Sharp Claws can be utilized in on-hit builds to stack significant amounts of damage.

Hit/Evade - C

At this point I feel it's important to clarify I am not judging base stats. They are rather important for Hit/Evade but if you want to know what's best for that, just check their SKI/CEL.

Instinct provides Felidae some SKI/CEL/GUI for a minor bonus they'll naturally get over the course of a fight. Better than nothing.

Mobility - B

1 MOV is 1 MOV.

Grimalkin -

See Felidae. Grimalkin get everything Felidae do, with the option to exchange their instinct's stats. Otherwise racial wise entirely identical.

Leporidae -

Damage - C

Rabbit Foot gets an honorable mention since it technically has a damage amping effect to Nature spells and kicks after a Rabbit Leap. Typically not worth investing in SAN to boost this, so it remains a piddly 10 on average. It's something.

Mobility - S

Rabbit leap. Massive range movement skill that allows for otherwise mobility deficient setups to fly across the map.

Damage Reduction - A

Leporidae's instinct is unique in that it allows them to automatically face enemies who attempt to basic attack them once its 2nd stage (25/40% w/ pure instinct) is activated. Meaning any parry skills are unavoidable without guard breaks or effects that bypass parries, on top of enabling reductions like Bulwark to always be effective against them.

Muridae -

RATS RATS WE ARE THE RATS - RATS

Damage/Hit/Evade - C

Muridae can alter their Something Shiny effect to either grant hit, deal damage, or grant evade when they successfully proc it. Considering how difficult it is to make this happen on top of the SAN investment demanded to make it reliable, you'll almost never see this happen. It's technically something though.

Mobility - C+

See Felidae, except they can't wear heavy armor. Huh. Ok. Sure.

ANCIENTS

Elf -

Healing - S

As mentioned in the OP Elves make for great healers. It's also about all they have going for them as a race, and it boils down to a flat SAN addition to healing spells and staff items. Making things like Staff of Mend viable to spend momentum on.

Wild Elf -

Hit - B+

An amazing hit bonus but requires a steep SAN investment to bring out, when basic attackers are often strapped for stats as is. SAN/2 (capped at 20). If it wasn't divided by 2, it'd be an easy S.

Reaper -

Damage - C+

Macabre Culture gets them some tiny ELE attack bonuses for using remains material items. Soul Guide provides a +10% damage amp versus Possessed race enemies, which is almost every player because of spirits. It's definitely something but I'm hesitant to put it to B.

Reaper and Apertaurus have suffered from powercreep, Reaper especially as the introduction of the gem staves all but invalidated Reaper's Affinity's unique ability to make spears into casting tools.

Apertaurus -

Mobility - E+

If you want to gimp yourself and have no Leg slot you can get +2 MOV. More of a trap option as it stands than anything else sadly, but it's cute for character expression. Less cute when you're kissing the floor over it.

Damage - E+

Want to kick people a little bit harder? Forgot Accelia exists? Take off your shoes for up to 15 more damage!

See Reaper for how Affinity got powercrept. Axes didn't suffer as much but with the introduction of Arcane and additional Conduiz-esque materials like Fossil, Scorched Wood, Clawice, etc, almost no one ever uses Apertaurus for its ability to cast with Axes. Oh yeah, did I mention you need to invest SAN based on their rarity to even do that? Yeah. It sucks.

CORRUPTED

Status Effects - E

Worth mentioning that due to their negative interaction with SAN, Corrupted naturally cannot attain reasonable amounts of status resist, meaning they'll almost always get hit with status effects bar having an immunity.

Umbral -

Evade - C+

Would be an easy B if it wasn't an instance based buff. You almost never want these if they don't have any other effects to them like Disengage or are naturally obtained from another action via Miragewalk/Windswept Gi (ToT).

Damage - B

Free Dark ATK is free Dark ATK. 15 definitely isn't nothing.

Shaitan -

boil

Damage - S

You could beat most non-meta builds by spamming grapple and black rend as your only source of damage. DR ignoring, evade ignoring damage with 1/0 round cooldown.

Charm/Hesitation - S+

They're immune if you don't build SAN. Some of the best immunities to have in the game.

Oracle -

Hit/Evade - E or S

If you're outside 1 range, E. In 1 range, S. One of the few percentage modifiers left in the game for Hit/Evade. In PvP realistically this means you're getting kited to death and will explode to anyone trying to hit you who knows you're an oracle.

I don't really put any stock in Preordinance. It's one of the worst instance based evade buffs in the game. It'd be more useful and impactful if it was a DR instead of an evade buff. It has 2 traits that are largely inconsequential to modify it. Either you get +25 evade (every 4 rounds) or +10 evade (every 2 rounds). Still only for one hit. If you're relying on this to give you any evade you're doing something wrong. If you take one, take the +10 evade for a dummy status to soak Hellish Eye or other generic dispels.

Papillion -

Status Effects - S

For applying statuses Papillions are among the best in their easily stackable infliction bonus of up to 20%, and their potential to inflict debilitating statuses like Blind, Silence, and Charm for 1m.

Theno -

Damage Reduction - C+

Blocking Dark Water is worth mentioning for saving your Crit Evade, if you for wahtever reason built a meaningful amount of Faith.

Interference - A+

A fairly large range AoE Inteference that deals at least 90 base damage if you're level 60 due to Theno automatically having Sound ATK equal to their character level. The range compensates for doing barely any damage whilst applying Interference.

SERPENTKIND

Glykin -

Healing - B

Free regen is nice. Adds up to about a single good heal's worth in most fights.

Damage Reduction - A

Poison immunity is very nice to have for tanks. Just in general it can be nice to dodge a common DoT status for free, as even to non-tanks it will usually deal around 50-60 damage per round for on average 3 rounds. That's almost an entire free decent attack. Mitigating that passively is fantastic, but doesn't always come up, so it isn't an S.

Wyverntouched -

Damage - S

Poison Bite can be a nice tank buster if you're desperate or be your primary source of damage if you're built around stalling people out. It's BETTER THAN Black Rend in that it DOES NOT HAVE TO make a hit check, but if the poison lands it's a fair bit of damage that bypasses DR ON TOP OF MAULING THEM.

Confusion + Status Effects (Blind) + Movement Lock  - A+

A tiny bit less damage in exchange for being able to also confuse, blind, or clumsy along with your poison. Making for a fairly efficient means of applying debilitating status effects.

Damage Reduction - A

Wyverntouched get resistance, not immunity, which would warrant a B+ if it wasn't for the fact they apply this resistance to the damage type. Meaning unlike Glykin, they can negate any poison damage. So things like Poison tiles won't deal damage to them, provided they forked over the 50 Scaled SAN investment.

Hyattr -

Damage - E+

I'm obligated to rate its damage since it does in fact have a damaging racial skill. Fire breath is just bad. You don't use it for damage, you use it for dropping tiles for utility or as a very expensive movement skill/poor man's Flame Jetwing. In a world where you could gain Channel Destruction for free this might be a C.

Zoning - B

Not really accounting for the cinders it can leave since those kind of suck nowadays. More so the ability to potentially clear hazardous field objects with Channel Destruction > Fire Breath from a safe distance. Extremely circumstantial but it's about the best thing Hyattr has going for them, especially with the advent of Druid.

Naga -

Hit - B

Using Hidden Snake, Wrap can be used to gain Flanking's hit bonus for free as well as accessing the enemy's back. For basic attackers that is.

Knockdown - C

Requires being a basic attacker to make use of, and a means to easily grapple ideally. With an efficient grapple knocking someone down and dealing a bit of extra damage is nice.

Silence - C+

Only a 2 round Silence thus susceptible to being negated by Heron Feather/Bishop's Crest, but a silence is a silence, carries the same caveats as the knockdown version of Wrap. Options are nice.

Damage Reduction - S

Between the minor regen from Coil, the potential Guard level you can get out of it for 3m (55+), and the passive Slash resist (5%) + Scaled SAN Poison resist, Naga make for some of the best tanks in the game. Being able to perform 3-4m of actions and still 5m+ guard is huge. Not to mention guarding without needing a shield item.

OTHER

Redtail -

Damage - Divide and Conquer.

Randomly giving your whole team an extra 3m for free can potentially win a fight.

Hit/Evade/Damage Reduction (Crit Evade)/Status Effects - B

While you can get unlucky sometimes Redtail can modify these stats on a whim if their dice level isn't 1 by a fairly decent amount for a racial bonus (typical investment being 20-30 SAN thus 4-15). This would be an A if Spirit Jar was in Korvara.

Healing - All is not lost that is in peril.

Teamwide 1,000 HP heal if god smiles on you.

In all seriousness evaluating Redtail is difficult because of how RNG heavy it is without Spirit Jar to at least set a fairly consistent +10 to its dice bonuses. Its fortune effects are capable of swinging the tempo of fights in either direction via removing the Redtail's turn immediately, granting multiple turns worth of momentum, or removing multiple turns worth of damage from their team.

Omina -

lol

Evade - A

Having a Hit debuff at all warrants at minimum an A. Sadly it does nothing other than debuff hit (by 15) and requires accruing a resource (5 Unluck) to use. Extra Sadly you can be locked out of being able to use your racials at all if you are hit with Interference or Confusion, since those statuses didn't have enough going for them.

Doriad -

Movement Lock - S

Having such a long duration Immobilize can instantly win fights if your opponent cannot answer it. Simple as that.

Mobility - B

Not as important these days with the utility we've gotten but being a Plant means easy access to Forest Walk. And getting obliterated for free by the Attune Grudge Amalgama but we don't talk about that part.

HOMUNCULI

Salamandra -

Damage - B

Flame Arts can be funny when you build for it. By no means does it carry on its own but it can contribute a decent chunk of extra damage if you can somehow manage to get crits off. Downside is you're building crit and having to do Fire magical damage somehow, very limiting.

Everything Else (Debuffs) - B is for Burn. They're burn immune which can be helpful at times if you're for whatever reason carrying a high DEF mod. Otherwise Burn rarely comes up nowadays.

Everything Else (Buffs) - A

Having a universal dispel, even if it's only a 1 count, can be very useful to have as a racial ability that also inflicts damage. The fact it competes with the far more fun Flame Art of exploding everything constantly means you'll almost never see this, but worth mentioning for its utility.

Amalgama -

Damage - S

So long as Attune Grudge exists in its current state, combined with new Cherry Blossom Amalgama can casually put +50% damage on anything. Pre Cherry Blossom this was still highly reliable by assigning all spirits to Possessed so you'd punish most other players who would typically run spirits. Now you don't care and just drop a tree on them before erasing them from reality.

This is all Amalgama really has going for it. Mared Jorg is OK FP sustain but it's basically just a blue potion as a racial.

Damage Reduction - B

Formidable deserves an honorable mention as an endure if you chose to forsake Attune Grudge for some reason. Odds are this will overtake Attune Grudge whenever it gets hit, if it's hit hard enough. Being able to potentially get another turn can swing fights.

Chimera -

Get free weakness to Attune Grudge (Possessed) and/or Holy! Be susceptible to almost every single Racial bane in the game!

Movement Lock - B

Petrifying Stare is OK. It's an immobilize that deals damage, if you're desperate for an albeit short duration immobilize.

Hit - B+

Allowing Hellish Eye to strip virtually every single evade buff off someone is nice, though very niche in that you have to be a Chimera using a Tome. Otherwise this would be in the high As or even S instead.



That's it for races! As you might've noticed I only put down ratings for categories that the race notably impacted. Race tends not to be incredibly important...usually. There are some clear winners as illustrated by the OP and the (S)hiny Ss I handed out to only a few of the races. These of course do not mean the race is objectively S tier and better than all of them, but it's hard not to say they have a clear advantage in some way with how some can inherently leap 10 tiles or have passive immunity to charm/fear/hesitation, whilst others are handed obsolete abilities to cast with inferior weapons to newer content or a racial which barely does anything that can be disabled by already overbearing status effects.

Now to address class balance. This will be where most if not all of the categories matter and will be addressed, as a classes inability to address a category means a clear flaw in their defenses that needs to be accounted for.

I will not be doing base classes in depth. If there are significant factors (like Fleur) they will be mentioned prior leading up to their grouping much the same as Races were done.

Since we're using every category now to measure worth, point values will be given to provide an easier representation for a classes' standing.

E = 0, D = 1 C = 2 B = 3 A = 4 S = 5. + are .5 increments. E+ = 0.5, D+ = 1.5, etc.

Thus with a whopping 19 categories that's a possible 95 points for Promoted classes. Yes, specific status effects will be graded the same as core concepts like damage, as most of these will kill you the same as getting your health set to 0 would if you can't do anything about it if it's about to kill you. In a perfect world these categories would be weighted.

If people are really enthusiastic about this concept, it can be further refined, for now, you all get this. So without further ado...

TSS: Classes

ARCHER -

3c. Knockdown - A

A potentially extremely long range knockdown in Pulling Shot that doubles as a zoning tool.

4a. Evade Buffs - S

Fortune Wind alone makes Archer base classes able to cap their Evade almost instantly for 3m.

6. Hit - S

Getting a free innate +18 hit to bows and +10 to guns is pretty nice for a base class. Won't get you past evade by itself but stacked with a proper buff or two it will.

8. Zoning - A

With an inherent range of well over 10+ Archer base classes can very well maintain a high threat range and discourage a reckless approach, as well as repositioning enemies with Pulling Shot to force favorable engagements if the enemy isn't mindful of their positioning.

Base Value - 18

Arbalest -

1. Damage - C

Without a supporting class Arbalests will struggle to escape C tier damage.

2. Healing - D+

One extremely situational debuff cleanse/heal. It's better than nothing but costs 5m. You'd need a debuff warranting using this and have your Special Armament on cooldown, as this will spend your entire turn. Thus it's often more detrimental to use it than not if you're facing any pressure at all.

3. Status Effects - D

Actually having a generic debuff cleanse, even if only 1 count, is more than a lot of classes can say. Downside: it costs 5m. It has to be a very bad status to warrant casting Shore Up to counter it, and it has to be the only status you have or else it can fail to hit it.

3a. Movement Lock - B

Utilizing skills like Chained Dog, Chained Whirlwind, and Chained Leap you can get around most movement blocks. I think at least, unless these all get disabled and I'm stupid, then this is a big fat E. I wouldn't know since I've never used any of those. You might be asking yourself "But Trex, why are you making this giant list then?!" to that I say "Because when was the last time you saw anyone cast those skills I mentioned?"

3b. Interference - E
3c. Knockdown - A

Blowback Cannon is a pretty efficient Knockdown and can scatter team formations at the same time. The only downside is being an Arbalest.

3d. Charm - E
3e. Hesitation - E
3f. Silence - C

Arbalests don't really care about being silenced.

3g. Confusion - E
3h. Everything Else (Debuffs) - A

Buster Cannon is one of the most potent defense shred debuffs in the game, even after getting gutted. It's still a sizable -15% DR and -30 Armor that can be applied in an AoE.

3i. Everything Else (Buffs) - C

Arbalest's only buff it can grant to others that wouldn't go elsewhere entirely is Deadly Aim for its bonus to Critical Damage. +10% at max rank or +13% spirited. It is a 3 size circle around yourself so not small but also not the easiest to apply to people who might need it. It has no ability to remove buffs.

4. Evade - E
4a. Evade Buffs - E
5. Damage Reduction - C

It has a singular buff that buffs its DEF/RES by 5 each. You use this more for its offensive benefit, if enemies are actually swinging into you. In melee range. When you're very likely using a bow. Yeah, good luck. Even with the 10% reduction to the penalty eating 40-30% reduction is a death sentence.

6. Hit - B+

Arbalest can only partially cheese out needing hit with granting its cannon skills Great Accuracy in exchange for immobilizing themselves, or waiting up to 3 rounds of passive charge generation to ignore evade. Not being able to easily benefit from Flanking due to using bows more often than not means you will struggle to hit. This is where weapon selection hurts Arbalest, who seem confused as to where they want to be in a fight.

6b. Hit Buffs - B

+10 hit from Deadly Aim, +5 from Firing Posture. Account for the base of up to +18 from Archer and you're looking at +33 total bonus hit. In terms of hit buffs, it isn't terrible, but without being able to flank efficiently and at times contending with the close range penalty, it's not ideal.

7. Mobility - B+

Multiple (situationally) 1m moves with one able to reposition an enemy. The range is fairly low for the reposition (3) and the self move is a straight 5 line, so compared to more modern abilities it falls flat but is still A tier for being 1m (after having used Oil Chain).

8. Zoning - A

Cannon skills can easily zone by either forcing enemies away with pushback or threatening Buster Cannon to make enemies easier to put down if they allow themselves to be caught by it.

Promotion Value - 36/95

Verdict: There were some attempts to modernize Arbalest but in trying to balance the cannons Arbalest's identity went all over the place. Where once it was a tanky brawler that favored heavier weapons now it jumps around in a small area and tries to blast people with little to no utility outside its defense shredding and knockback + knockdown (that it has to choose between which it wants to do every 3-4~ rounds). Extremely hard to justify using when Ranger exists in its current state.

Magic Gunner - AKA this is an Archer promo??????

1. Damage - C+

Shell effects and consistent Spark Drive procs can potentially get Magic Gunner close to B tier in terms of raw damage output. Guile's crit mod is doing most of the heavy lifting here, not the class.

2. Healing - E+

If you're extremely desperate, Vamp shell exists for....7-10 hp on hit. It exists, I guess.

3. Status Effects - E

Shocking, I know, but this is to gauge the ability to deal with status effects in general which is more about having a generic cleanse of any sort. Not the classes' ability to dish out statuses, that's further down.

3a. Movement Lock - B

Whilst only being single target, an OC Frozen Shell can apply frozen alongside a basic attack. Downside being anything needing an OC effect is another 3m/opportunity cost of a spark drive proc.

3b. Interference - S

3-4 round AoE non-inflict based Interference. Quite possibly the best means of applying Interference in the game. If I handed out S+s I'd put one here.

3c. Knockdown - B

Similar deal to 3a, only single target so whilst not bad the price can be steep if it's outside a 1v1.

3d. Charm - C

Magic Gunner can provide itself an immunity need be that encompasses both Charm and Hesitation. Downside is that's all it does for 3m, which can be a costly tempo loss for what is likely a critical oriented build.

3e. Hesitation - C

See 3d.

3f. Silence - B

Being only the Charge effect, Spark Drive can immediately let you (attempt to) inflict silence as part of your combo in a single round. Very handy for easing pressure from non-support casters.

3g. Confusion - E
3h. Everything Else (Debuffs) - B

Magic Gunner has a plethora of debuffs it can choose from, being the OG jack of all trades when it comes to doling out status effects. A shadow of the greatness it once was, it's still not necessarily bad, but more modern applicators like Ranger outclass it.

3i. Everything Else (Buffs) - A

Magic Gunner has strictly buff skills. Sonic Shell and Lucky Shell are the entirety of a Magic gunner's buffing, and Lucky Shell can, if god smiles on you, win fights by itself by casually negating damage procs repeatedly. Magic Gunner is also not bad at all in removing buffs using Null Shell. Unfortunately with the rework to it, its buff removal aspect became Overcharge, thus needing a 6m investment, being the same efficiency as Requinite, you just get to shoot someone too.

4. Evade - D

It has evade support! For...everyone but yourself. You'll be relying on fortune wind for the most part.

4a. Evade Buffs - D

Sonic Speed. That's it. You do not want to rely on Sonic Speed to finish capping your Evade Buff, plan around Fortune Wind and find something like Miragewalk to cover whatever you're missing if not your other class.

5. Damage Reduction - D

Stand Off. You get maybe about 5-6% Phys DR from it if you're well invested in Will. It's something.

6. Hit - S

Focused Mind nearly caps your hit combined with Archer's base +10 from Dynamic Shooting. For yourself, at least.

6b. Hit Buffs - S

Being able to apply Magnetize and Glowing if you're especially desperate can be useful, but these both require landing a hit in the first place. Whilst Magic Gunner has Frozen, it too requires a hit check and requires the Overchage effect. Though when you consider these will all but or literally invalidate Evade if they land, they're pretty good.

7. Mobility - D

Magic Gunner can give itself +1 MOV with Sonic Speed. That's it. It is a sitting duck in terms of mobility if it isn't using a Crazy Coyote or its other class.

8. Zoning - C

Magic Gunners struggle to fight effectively at long distances, needing to be within 4-5 range to hit Evade characters reliably whilst lacking easy methods to engage efficiently without using a Crazy Coyote. In the modern meta the largest threats of Magic Gunners are easily mitigated with Druid removing Interference if a tank is used to propagate it on team and Sonic Shell's knockdown being only a single target. Want to be a Magic Gunner but better? Play Ranger.

Promotion Value - 42/95

Verdict: Magic Gunner competed with Ranger since Ranger's conception, and following both Magic Gunner's rework that crippled its most powerful tools (Sonic Shell, Null Shell) and Ranger's subsequent rework and rise to godhood, you'll rarely see Magic Gunner being run even on people who use guns. Odds are they're a Ghost/DH instead. You run MG to meme with Lucky Shell nowadays, that's about it. It is by no means a bad class but its job is done far better and with greater utility by Ranger. The only thing it has going for it is Lucky Shell.

Ranger - The Cooler Magic Gunner

1. Damage - C+

Deos Danzai can provide a decent spike in burst but not accounting for what Attune Grudge/Black Spirit consistency can do, Ranger doesn't actually have consistently high damage output. It's just that you'll usually see it being run with at least 25% vs Plant.

2. Healing - B+

A mapwide heal and a single target heal equivalent to a non-elf Graft, both stat agnostic. Rangers make fantastic off healers and a gang of them can keep each other alive through most fights.

3. Status Effects - E

One of Ranger's few flaws. It doesn't have any generic cleanses so it cannot answer any statuses applied to it.

3a. Movement Lock - A

Easy access to Frozen, at a much higher level than Magic Gunner along with the ability to make its effect an AoE to lock down an entire team.

3b. Interference - E
3c. Knockdown - A

AoE knockdown with significant damage behind it if both the initial cast and subsequent detonation land on the same target.

3d. Charm - E
3e. Hesitation - E
3f. Silence - B

While being infliction based, being able to apply in an AoE albeit at stricter conditions than simply dropping a rain trap provides yet more utility to Ranger's loaded kit.

3g. Confusion - E
3h. Everything Else (Debuffs) - C

If you can get yourself lined up Agile Androcobra can apply an albeit weak Acidity (5 non-annorum, 10 annorum'd). Otherwise most effects outside those explicitly noted in other categories aren't worth spending resources on aside from Cherry Petals, but that's just a bonus for an already amazing skill.

3i. Everything Else (Buffs) - S

Ranger is the de facto, undisputed champion of buff removal. Pressure Fletch can be an AoE up to 3 count dispel. This can remove an inordinate amount of tempo in certain matchups.

4. Evade - D

You can get your +15 Evade if you really need it as part of your actions if you're using skills like Flip Shot or Retreat Flight. Typically you don't want to bank on this but it's nice to have in an emergency.

4a. Evade Buffs - D

See the above. Ranger has no active buffs, you're only amping your evade if you're needing to relocate, and you generally want to be casting if you can help it unless you're running Duelist, in which case it may be more lucrative to attack then double cast.

5. Damage Reduction - E

Ranger doesn't really have any impactful boons to its survivability that'd fall under DR. Until it can turn things into beasts or avians I guess.

6. Hit - B

If you're fiending for hit, cast one of the two basic attack skills for +15. Otherwise Ranger itself doesn't do much to amplify its hit, but it can easily reposition itself to be closer whilst attacking if it's running afoul of a farshot/closeshot penalty it'd rather not have.

6b. Hit Buffs - B

You've got Frigid Arrow to guarantee a hit if you land it, that's about it. Definitely not bad by any means but Ranger is not going to be able to amp its own hit at all without outside support. Either you have it or you don't with Archer's base support.

7. Mobility - S

They can move from one end of the universe to the other and still go plus on you.

8. Zoning - S

Hey, remember last class where I said to play this? Yeah the 'Range' part of 'Ranger' was pretty accurate. If you aren't an Evade you are getting yanked from Narnia into hell to be beat to death. Rain traps can create team-wiping hazards, potentially unavoidable if a team is forcibly pulled into a combo involving one.

Promotion Value - 39/95

Verdict: Lacking answers to many status effects it may get inflicted with and having no means to inflict most of those statuses does a number on my arbitrary value for Ranger, despite how amazing of a class it is. All this means is Ranger leans on whatever other class it has and or its race/itemization to cover whatever holes it has. Its stellar performance in providing AoE heals, map control, and widespread crowd control + buff removal makes it extremely versatile and combined with the changes to Cherry Blossom allowing it to slap +25-50% damage on anything, it can also threaten high tier damage.

To Be Continued (For Now)

This is where I'd continue onto Bard, but I'm going to pause here for now and allow for input on what I've put together here thus far, and to allow people the opportunity to beg me to continue and/or stop. My haphazard categorization is but a prototype for what I'd hope to use to more easily discern and ascribe viability to builds by combining assessments of Race, class, items, traits, and talents. That way we can instead argue about what arbitrary letter we're giving an item in what category, so we at least know what aspect we're all most concerned with regarding an item.

It is my hope that by getting closer to defining what should be the standard, it'll make it easier to spot what needs uplifting the most or tuning down. I still wish to emphasize that I don't want to turn everything the exact same. Classes and races need to have their specialties. It's when they don't have any specialties that it becomes a problem. That's what I want to fix.

Thank you for your time, even if you scrolled for dear life to get down here and threw up a little seeing how small the scrollbar suddenly got after I posted here.

[zericosmic]

Current meta is ass, I've never had less fun playing PvP than in the modern meta where melee just feels ass, and everyone and their mothers is playing a ranger or something adjacent with a bajillion free stats using handshot privlelges. Sure melee druid is neat! Can we have something more than just that.?

1v1 Wild ride (Corvis) is obscene, you rarely see it because of just how little fun it is, I know I dropped it because I felt bad, but it should not be this easy to 100-0 someone.

4v4s are in shambles, it's just hours of nothing happening with people ducking behind cover and using whatever they can just to force the other team to engage, whoever engages first usually loses, and druids turning the battlefield in to a minefield does not help with the problem.

DEF stat that has been power crept by FAI to hell and back, and light damage is just all over the place because of how good it is to build FAI, AND PRIEST, THE TITULAR FAI CLASS ISN'T EVEN THE PROBLEM WHEN IT COMES TO THIS!

Solsphere damage rn is also obscene, and it all goes through evade too.