[RoboCat]

I was thinking. Hexers would be much less overpowered if their invocation spells were fixed up. For the most part they're not even counter-able. Once you get one good invocation off with the hexer class, any opponent who can't basically do you the same thing or heal their way through the onslaught is basically done-in.

Simply do this here, to fix the class. :
Make the class incompatible with High Speed Divine Words
Make Spirit pain and Earthbound Vengeance Rank C invocations.

OR

Make Spirit Pain a Rank B invocation because it can and does kill anything 100 percent of the time.
Then just like in the first suggestion make Earthbound Vengeance a Rank C invocation.

[Sarinpa1]

There already is a thread about Spirit pain. Refer to it. (It's not really that strong.)
Damage of earthbound vengeance isn't all that high to be such a gamechanger as you claim it to be. Both have incredibly high costs.

lern 2 outdamage

[RoboCat]

That's the thing my fellow roleplayer. With the right class combination, if you last long enough to get both of these out. Then you'll be able to beat anyone. Now. Put that in an IC scenario with multiple hexers. You get instant wins. You might be able to outdamage a single hexer, but it's the fight's integrity that lacks when it comes to the class. Where as in a lot of cases you can beat someone by being smart when you have lower stats and weaker equips. With hexer, the hexer just has to be really silly about what they're doing to not win if they've put the ten sp into maxing those skills.

That's the main reason I'm saying one of these should happen. Preferably the second idea for a down-sizing I posted.

Also, could you link me the other Spirit Pain thread?

[THE Xecron]

Sarinpa1 » Mon May 04, 2015 10:44 am[/url]"]There already is a thread about Spirit pain. Refer to it. (It's not really that strong.)
Damage of earthbound vengeance isn't all that high to be such a gamechanger as you claim it to be. Both have incredibly high costs.

lern 2 outdamage

It is difficult to outdamage a class if you can't even get to them and stop such evokes. They last way longer than they should to be honest, and you can't exactly combat them with ease. You cannot even wait it out because you will just get poisoned to death or (When partnered up with other mage classes or Priest), you find yourself pretty much unable to attack. Sure Spirit Pain (Using this example because I am unsure how earthbound effects a battle), could be overcome through multi-shot weapons, but biting the bullet(other projectiles are available) for 5 turns and dealing with the damage from the hexer seems a little excessive.

[Mivereous]

RoboCat » Mon May 04, 2015 5:54 am[/url]"]
Also, could you link me the other Spirit Pain thread?

http://neus-projects.net/viewtopic.php?f...pirit+pain

[Ryu-Kazuki]

Personally I don't see many problems with Hexer, considering the other nerfs they already got. Compared to an Evoker, their basic spell output is mitigated because of;

A - Resistances for two different types of damage.

B - The damage is split in half between Dark & X.

Most of the invocations are utility based (minus Enma's, but that's one people barely use), unlike Evokers, whose Invokes are all damage based, and can be amplified by CM.

Hexers may be strong, if you can build them right, but they're not ridiculous.

[Ranylyn]

Pretty much seconding everything Ryu said.

I mean, Spirit Pain counters normal attacks only, and only from one random opponent every turn. Sure, I could see this being an issue in 1v1 PVP against a character built primarily for normals (So... Kensei and MG, pretty much? And of course, both do have skill based options) but hey, everything has it's counters, it's not a big issue. The fact that it was mentioned at all is actually kind of laughable, really. "Can and will kill anything 100? of the time?" Please.

Earthbound Fog or Vengeance? Sure, I can see why these are an issue to some people, but again, due to their high costs, taking 2 turns to cast, and how common dark resist is (for Vengeance related issues) I don't think they're overpowered. "Oh, just combine the two!" Okay, sure, if you can survive long enough to set that up, go ahead! Spoilers: You probably can't, unless you did something like me (hyattr hexer/bk, and it can't ailment to save it's life anymore, crippling it's primary offense.)

[RoboCat]

I'm not looking at the spell like it's a '1-hit KO superspell' I'm just saying that it's too smooth for most class combinations that aren't being awkwardly shoved together because the player knew they were fighting a hexer before hand. This is what hexer does. Not just to one specific class, but to all of them basically. Save for maybe VA but not everything can be easily used alongside VA like it can with hexer.

I made the suggestion to make the spells take slightly longer because just like in my complaint about evokers a long while back, I think the hexer class takes what it's meant to do in terms of battle balance too far, with these spells being the bigger part of why. Yes, you can resist the similarly annoying elemental/dark spells. That's not the hard part about hexers. These invocations take the cake compared to the other skills. Also, lets not forget that spirit pain's steal and heal thing is unresistable.

It can be used basically to combat everything with no real weakness other than the lame old 'it takes two turns' or 'it costs 50fp' or 'just use special equips and autohits' excuse that we all know ain't really true, mainly . Also, with how easy hp is to get, unless you have absolutely horrible stats, you'll be able to take a dump on all but the most resistant and bulky of fighters. I feel like no one class should be able to do that, even if most the scenarios this happens in come from a '1v1' setting.

Either way, after some more consideration and testing the spell out. I've decided I'm editing my suggestion. I have the newer suggestion in mind as before I had not truly used it combo'd with more non-mage classes, but I'll post again once the server is back up and I can be certain I was slightly overestimating the class. Once I do that, I will edit the main post.

[Rendar]

RoboCat » Mon May 04, 2015 4:40 am[/url]"]Simply do this here, to fix the class. :
Make the class incompatible with High Speed Divine Words
Make Spirit pain and Earthbound Vengeance Rank C invocations.

OR

Make Spirit Pain a Rank B invocation because it can and does kill anything 100 percent of the time.
Then just like in the first suggestion make Earthbound Vengeance a Rank C invocation.

B-but... Spirit Pain only really fucks over Basic Attackers... and you can run around if you get afflicted with it... or even swap to auto-hits like excel KICK to destroy lives.

Hell even DEATH KNIGHT went up against me and it.. sorta got rekt. Like that +100% Damage didn't do shit to hurt me.

[Sarinpa1]

'Slightly longer'
Yeaah let's render them completely unusable because most classes can pretty much half-kill if not completely kill you in that time unless they're on the short end of stick with rock-paper-scissors.
This "Lame old" is quite the hinderance. You ridiculing it and trying to toss it aside doesn't make it less of a weakness. The only class that in reality gets fucked over by Spirit pain is, gunner. Only gunner. Nothing else, but your precious gunner. Everything else can handle it. Did you consider getting yourself a secondary low dmg weapon? Galdric handguns aren't that uncommon. And multishot guns don't even get fucked over by spirit pain as far as I know. Only the first shot.
But yeah. Spirit pain is in the other thread. Refer to it there.


Also it'd be wise to just quote the OP and modify the quote. Not completely mess up the thread.