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The state of "antags" (and conflict?)
#31
(07-29-2023, 07:19 PM)Skimmy2 Wrote:
(07-29-2023, 06:57 PM)MegaBlues Wrote: -snip-

While I agree with you,
wasint one of the whole appeals of Korvara that PvP and Conflict do decide very important things to a lot of characters?
You can't exactly be on an Island where it's inhabitants fight for survival every day against monsters or that the political situation is far more volatile and tense than anywhere in G6 and avoid it.

Like if you have zero interest in getting ganked for being always IC in runescape wilderness island, then don't be on the runescape wilderness IC island.
We've got entire rules and policies written explicitly for Korvara so that people can't ignore the results of PvP/Conflict.

I think that the idea of Korvara being a free PVP Gank conflict zone has been poisoning the well since before even day #1. People went in having to consider what builds they'd need to survive the ganks they expected. And while natural conflict is good, enforcing the idea that the ONLY form of conflict bring PVP is terrible. And it's something that is brought up in these threads time and time again.

"But what if I don't agree with them or I want to PVP for my win?"
Shucks. You've got me there. Except- why is PVP the default for problem solving in a game where the balance is, at the best of times, absolutely mediocre? (Global quaking tap, hello.) Is it because people want it easy or is it because they refuse to speak to one another on equal footing? If I had to guess, it'd be a bit of both. 

At least do an RP fight or two, or something. Dice rolls are just as fair as the game's balance.

Oh and it's an RP game, damn
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#32
Friendship means little when it's convenient.
The same can be said for conflict.

I fully understand, and I actually would probably fall into or lean more towards the camp that doesint like conflict despite what my recent contrarian views would suggest.
But it's ridiculous to create a Korvaran character and try your best to ignore or not engage with those things.

All Korvaran characters deal with extreme hardship, their lives are on average short. Both RPly and, taking a look at the graveyards of past characters compared to G6, mechanically.

My views extend to roleplay in general and not just "Antagonists" specifically. If you decide to go somewhere where your character might be confronted by an individual, than it is incredibly childish to have some notion to pick and choose what affects you.
there is no ooc grinding in Korvara no matter how munch we all politely pretend to ignore each other while doing it.

To use an actual example, nobody should be crying oocly about being confronted or harassed by a Geladynian patrol, especially if they are Meiaquarise. To be confronted by them is the price of admission to roleplay on the island, it is a way of Korvaran life that you agreed to when you made your character.
I fail to see why a character labeled as "Antagonist" suddenly changes that.
If you don't want your character being in conflict, then it's up to you to avoid it. Stay where it's safe, travel where it's safe.

With that being said, I concede to most everything said and with Pyro and Megablues and agree with them fully, preferring roleplay or dice mechanics over PvP.

Even if I personally believe that we all signed the ooc permission slips when getting into Korvara, I can see the points and sympathize with those that disagree.
Munch
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#33
(07-29-2023, 08:26 PM)Pyro Wrote: At least do an RP fight or two, or something. Dice rolls are just as fair as the game's balance.

Dice rolls existing as a great equalizer for any sort of mechanically unfair PVP fantasies is always an important thing to remember. The reason RP fights don't happen is because they practically require you and someone else to agree on an outcome before it ever comes about. While I've done this at least a few times, this really is only possible with people you can have that conversation with and already likely did have that conversation with.

The problem is that even in situations where you want to mechanically PVP, that sort of level of communication is always better. 'What happens if I win. What happens if I lose. What are your expectations? Would you feel upset if I X instead of Y?' And most importantly 'I do not feel comfortable with this. I do not want to do this anymore. Thank you for your time.' If necessary.

People being unwilling to deny other people when they are just unhappy about the whole affair and then later going out of their way to be audibly upset about it has been one of the biggest problems in Korvara. 'I was thrown in jail for X weeks! How could they do this to me!?' has been said more than once. The answer to that question, oddly enough, is because you did it to you. The people complaining are in control of their character at that point. And they are blaming other people FOR it. Usually while also adding in IC components of greater abuse than was attributed to their character by their captor, kidnapper, or jailor.
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#34
The recent attempt to get Zofia killed speaks loud enough in a few points discussed here. It's not limited to just antagonism, just any form of conflict.
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#35
The thought of using dice rolls for conflict resolution is so… unsatisfying. And to resolve with just RP? The exact reason why I loathe that is because without a mechanical system to moderate fights, I’d just as quickly always give in to my opponent winning. I don’t want to feel bad about winning, like I emotionally strong-armed someone into having my roleplay trump their roleplay. So I would honestly rather just lose.

I’m in the same boat as Polk here- I find the PVP fun. I like playing SL2 because it’s both roleplay and a game. Taking the game part out and I’d just be better off roleplaying in a discord server. If I want to make a guy that uses big axe, I engage with the game and make guy who uses big axe well. If I want to make slippery dagger man, then I can do that. And despite my hyper-niche of crit damage builds, I find different ways to make these builds so playing each character feels unique. And it isn’t even about winning! I sometimes make a build that’s flat-out subpar, that I know has a glaring weakness because the goal isn’t to win PVP 100%, or even 50%, 30%, etc, of the time. It’s to have something I created fit in with the roleplay, in beautiful tandem.

I’m not saying people should be forced to PVP- don’t get me wrong, once again consent is important. But just to state my opinion, the other two options are either just so dry it just fills me with emptiness, or so prone to others with strong personalities strong-arming a victory.
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#36
(07-29-2023, 09:56 PM)Snake Wrote: The recent attempt to get Zofia killed speaks loud enough in a few points discussed here. It's not limited to just antagonism, just any form of conflict.

Pretty much this. I don't mind people who play a bandit or sociopathic serial killer who go and make their character the next guillotine ornament. That's fun enough.

But don't make it the standard for how conflict is run just because some people vibe with that energy. If you don't LIKE dealing with cartoony antags every week and you feel like they somehow need or deserve common and constant culling, then just... Don't interact with them. Don't make it your character's job. Don't message them asking to find them. I can promise you that you and them BOTH will be happier for not being involved a roleplay that one of you or both of you don't enjoy.

I'll never understand people who actively hate a type of roleplay but still inject themselves into it for some reason.
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#37
(07-29-2023, 08:17 PM)MegaBlues Wrote: -snip-

(07-29-2023, 09:57 PM)Sawrock Wrote: -snip-

Sigrogana Legends 2 did not always have Conflict Rules.

The Rules were written explicitly as a direct result to the age old question "What do you do when both parties do not agree?"
Fun fact, those rules are entirely optional if both parties 100% agree oocly.

The fact that we stil have no clear answer to that question is nothing more than an oversight by Dev and the GMs.

Which defaults to "talk to the GMs if we can't agree"
Munch
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#38
(07-29-2023, 09:57 PM)Sawrock Wrote: The thought of using dice rolls for conflict resolution is so… unsatisfying. And to resolve with just RP? The exact reason why I loathe that is because without a mechanical system to moderate fights, I’d just as quickly always give in to my opponent winning. I don’t want to feel bad about winning, like I emotionally strong-armed someone into having my roleplay trump their roleplay. So I would honestly rather just lose.

I’m in the same boat as Polk here- I find the PVP fun. I like playing SL2 because it’s both roleplay and a game. Taking the game part out and I’d just be better off roleplaying in a discord server. If I want to make a guy that uses big axe, I engage with the game and make guy who uses big axe well. If I want to make slippery dagger man, then I can do that. And despite my hyper-niche of crit damage builds, I find different ways to make these builds so playing each character feels unique. And it isn’t even about winning! I sometimes make a build that’s flat-out subpar, that I know has a glaring weakness because the goal isn’t to win PVP 100%, or even 50%, 30%, etc, of the time. It’s to have something I created fit in with the roleplay, in beautiful tandem.

I’m not saying people should be forced to PVP- don’t get me wrong, once again consent is important. But just to state my opinion, the other two options are either just so dry it just fills me with emptiness, or so prone to others with strong personalities strong-arming a victory.

The only way to play the game is hyper crit damage brother, hell yea, RoT+ for life.
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#39
(07-29-2023, 11:08 PM)caliaca Wrote:
(07-29-2023, 09:57 PM)Sawrock Wrote: The thought of using dice rolls for conflict resolution is so… unsatisfying. And to resolve with just RP? The exact reason why I loathe that is because without a mechanical system to moderate fights, I’d just as quickly always give in to my opponent winning. I don’t want to feel bad about winning, like I emotionally strong-armed someone into having my roleplay trump their roleplay. So I would honestly rather just lose.

I’m in the same boat as Polk here- I find the PVP fun. I like playing SL2 because it’s both roleplay and a game. Taking the game part out and I’d just be better off roleplaying in a discord server. If I want to make a guy that uses big axe, I engage with the game and make guy who uses big axe well. If I want to make slippery dagger man, then I can do that. And despite my hyper-niche of crit damage builds, I find different ways to make these builds so playing each character feels unique. And it isn’t even about winning! I sometimes make a build that’s flat-out subpar, that I know has a glaring weakness because the goal isn’t to win PVP 100%, or even 50%, 30%, etc, of the time. It’s to have something I created fit in with the roleplay, in beautiful tandem.

I’m not saying people should be forced to PVP- don’t get me wrong, once again consent is important. But just to state my opinion, the other two options are either just so dry it just fills me with emptiness, or so prone to others with strong personalities strong-arming a victory.

The only way to play the game is hyper crit damage brother, hell yea, RoT+ for life.
Hell yeah!!! RoT+ baby!!! The best status effect is DEATH
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#40
(07-29-2023, 08:43 AM)FaeLenx Wrote: If someone doesn't want to roleplay with you then your best bet is to just not roleplay with them. What do either of you have to gain if they seriously dislike your presence to the point where they would rather not hear from you OOCly?

If someone wants to do their own plots. Or settle a place, or so but can't because someone else doesn't like them! I'm all for regulating role play spaces, but when you're taking essential positions like leaderships on Korvara. You'll just stranglehold a LOT of people's enjoyment. 


If you really wanted to strictly regulate your own RP space. There is always That Place.
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