[Miller]

I am pretty sure rank 4 painproof does not provide a stronger buff

Before
System: * Initial Damage: 126 Slash Physical, flags: , sk: null, wep: Scareclaw / /obj/items/equip/weapon/monster/scareclaw * play_atk_anim was 1.
* 122 Evade VS 209 Hit. (Damage Hit Mod was 0)
*2 Roll(s) Remaining. This one was a hit. GLANCE_CHECK_FIRST was enabled and the first hit roll was successful, so no glancing.
* Critical check: 50 Critical VS 110 Critical Evade. (126)
* spec_flat_reduc was 0. (126) * amp_multi was 1. (126)
* reduc_multi was 100. (126); MAG DEF, 0 PHYS DEF, 100 REDUC
* elem_reduc was 0. (126)
* armor was allowed. armor_reduc was 7. (119)
* Damage caps applied. (119)
* Damage shields applied. (119) * Final damage was: 119.

After (Rank 4 Painproof)
System: * Initial Damage: 126 Slash Physical, flags: , sk: null, wep: Scareclaw / /obj/items/equip/weapon/monster/scareclaw
* play_atk_anim was 1.
* 122 Evade VS 209 Hit. (Damage Hit Mod was 0)
*2 Roll(s) Remaining. This one was a hit. GLANCE_CHECK_FIRST was enabled and the first hit roll was successful, so no glancing.
* Critical check: 50 Critical VS 110 Critical Evade. (126)
* spec_flat_reduc was 0. (126)
* amp_multi was 1. (126)
* reduc_multi was 40. (50.4); MAG DEF, 60 PHYS DEF, 100 REDUC
* elem_reduc was 0. (50.4)
* armor was allowed. armor_reduc was 7. (43.4)
* Damage caps applied. (43.4)
* Damage shields applied. (43.4) * Final damage was: 43.

[Senna]

I'm pretty sure we're all on the same page when it comes to the HP cost being lower or removed. Ofc, like I mentioned, if we are going to lower/remove the cost, giving it a CD would balance it out. So we don't have another BOI situation.

And yes, given what Miller shown, that is correct however, once you factor the HP cost, let's say, 10% of 800, than the HP you lost that turn is 43 + 80, a lot more than the 119 you would have taken lol.

The situation it's decent are large group fights, if you manage to mark each individual (And hope they don't just ignore you), or an evade base build that's standing in punishment range (1v1).

[Miller]

I'm pretty sure we're all on the same page when it comes to the HP cost being lower or removed. Ofc, like I mentioned, if we are going to lower/remove the cost, giving it a CD would balance it out. So we don't have another BOI situation.

And yes, given what Miller shown, that is correct however, once you factor the HP cost, let's say, 10% of 800, than the HP you lost that turn is 43 + 80, a lot more than the 119 you would have taken lol.

The situation it's decent are large group fights, if you manage to mark each individual (And hope they don't just ignore you), or an evade base build that's standing in punishment range (1v1).

The post was more so to illustrate that rank 4 painproof works and provides 60% DR as described in my prior post; so the bit of 'a lot more than the 119 you would've taken' is a bit disingenuous considering average base damage numbers often range in 250-300 and sometimes hit you twice or three times in a turn instead of a small 126 damage hit for the sole purpose of proving something.

This skill has a lot of situational value, large group fights and evasive builds having an edge with it are one of the most notable ones yes; but this skill has enough value to reduce all damage below 300~ to zero with almost no defensive stat investment whatsoever with certain set ups. While I don't think it's enough to elevate it to a 'great' skill given the cost; it's incredibly undervalued as a situational DR that excels with multiple attacks thrown at the wielder in either a group fight, against a summoner or certain classes with solid 1m damage options. (Engineer)

If I want to give my honest opinion, this skill more so needs a rework rather than a buff; Ghost really doesn't need another less situational damage reduction button while wraithguard is one of the most potent forms of DR in the game and armor exists in its current state of applying at the end of calc. But if it had to be buffed and remain functionally the same? An HP cost reduction(still total) and CD of 2 rounds is the way to go.

[Autumn]

I have to agree with Miller, while I do think Painproof really does need more use cases, it's current use case is actually incredibly powerful, delaying a turn before you die can mean a substantial difference in a teamfight if you know your allies can't cover you.

Painproof and Body Of Isesip are taken on squishy characters to mitigate their disadvantage states and they both do very good jobs at that, but Painproof unlike BoI costs HP so its usage cases are a little less clear cut than normal.

I'm not actually sure what else to suggest for Painproof that I wouldn't already suggest for Ghost as a whole, HP costs converted into flat + current HP% instead of max HP%

[Snake]

Current HP% is something that'd also help.

[Miller]

I have to agree with Miller, while I do think Painproof really does need more use cases, it's current use case is actually incredibly powerful, delaying a turn before you die can mean a substantial difference in a teamfight if you know your allies can't cover you.

Painproof and Body Of Isesip are taken on squishy characters to mitigate their disadvantage states and they both do very good jobs at that, but Painproof unlike BoI costs HP so its usage cases are a little less clear cut than normal.

I'm not actually sure what else to suggest for Painproof that I wouldn't already suggest for Ghost as a whole, HP costs converted into flat + current HP% instead of max HP%

Flat + Current HP% sounds like a nice way to nerf HP costs for it without getting into egregious territory once you hit low HP, I like it.

[Poruku]

I am pretty sure rank 4 painproof does not provide a stronger buff

Proof I'm wrong

Wow, thank you!! I appreciate the field work. I think I had this impression because the buff lvl was the same but I'm not sure. Either way, now we know

That being said, yeah. The HP cost being too steep is what holds this skill back. This is a problem with ghost as a whole, especially because they want to have a bunch of HP but then they don't really do anything with it.

There should be a way that ghost actually benefits from paying a ton of HP for their skills, because as it stands things like afflicted spectre just punish the ghost unless you're doing some kind of SAN instinct build and you REALLY wanna be at 50% quick.

Maybe there could be a buff you gain when spending HP with a stacking LVL equal to half of your spent hp, and when you deal ghost/basic attack damage you lifesteal for like 20% of damage done and reduce the buff by that number. So you kinda regain the lost hp by attacking like in bloodborne. Can't go beyond the buff amount of course. Just an idea. Could even give you a small buff based on how much of that "paid" blood you gave. Like +1 SWA per 10 lvl or something.