[Soapy]

Knockdown causing skills (or at least Heavy Tackle) seem to be applying the knockdown -before- the damage, so they deal full damage through Evasion.

Like in the other thread, I'm not sure if this is intended or not, but here it is.

[Rendar]

And this is a problem how?

It seems fine, as is because it says 'fuck off with your evasion bullshit'.

Though it does sort of make it useless so...

[Soapy]

Thank you for that very productive reply.

[Neus]

I can't really say it's intentional or unintentional since that behavior existed before Evasion was a thing. Should it function that way though? I would say probably. If you're putting them on their ass in the same motion you're damaging them with, that would be difficult to avoid.

[Soapy]

It can be sort of a big deal when people are dishing out 100+ damage with a standard Heavy Tackle, or when they're chucking you through cinder tiles with Lazarus Wind.

It makes Monks pretty much immune to Evasion, since they can just Dense Thunder you in the face (although I'm still not sure if that damages before or after).

It also makes the standard Celglas combo (Rising Kick, Axe Kick, Face Stomp) even more faceroll (again, assuming it damages before).

I'd say making it apply after damage would be a good idea, for consistency if nothing else (since that's how things like Guard Break work), and in the case of knockdown skills that include a knockback (Ice Skate, Heavy Tackle, Lazarus Wind, Sharenzan), it probably shouldn't apply the knockdown until their movement completes.

[Chaos]

The only skills that, I imagine, shouldn't knock down before the damage is done would be Turnover, Sharenzan and -maybe- Axe Kick. Otherwise, a few/couple knockdown skills that outright ignore evasion do make sense, and serve as plausible counters.

[Soapy]

After some testing, I found out Dense Thunder doesn't actually ignore Evasion (although the knockdown does disable it afterward), so there's that too.

It also turns out that Verglas skills (or at least Rising and Axe Kick) do ignore it, which is probably not intended (and definitely not a good idea).

[Neus]

Yes, it seems like the Kensei skills and some of the Verglas physical skills weren't passing their skill information when they did damage, so they weren't counting as being possible to avoid. Those have been corrected.

I'll give people some more time for discussion before I decide what to do about the order of damage + knockdown skills.