[Anhita]

Wait, this is still about the statues? I thought we already went over this. The person who did it came into the public chat and we talked it out and people's frustrations were made clear and we reached an understanding, with a conclusion of "let's be better next time". It was even made clear that they could be rebuilt and investigated, and people have been trying to look into it.

Most of the logs taken here were from before or during the conversation you are referring too, though not all of them I believe - which I had also figured was the end of it.

I do have a natural worry that the solution will either be handwaved as something far too easy, or be something that favors one nation over another. But that remains to be seen. And naturally if it is too hard to restore a statue - it encourages other people who want to do so ICly to do so.

Which, well. They have a precedent for it being possible, so why shouldn't they because of X reason?

Its subject matter I feel would have been better left untouched, in my opinion

[Dystopia]

Hey guys. 

I appreciate the thoughts and feelings shared thus far, and though those that stepped forward didn't have to, I think it's a good look.
We should be able to talk about these things, as it's just symptoms of larger community issues as a whole, that we've all slipped into from time to time. 

This was never a case of 'these people are bad and should feel bad', it was only to highlight the prevailing undercurrent of cynicism, doubt, and unfairness towards our fellow players, with the hopes that we can all have better, more mindful, and hopefully positive discourse moving forward. 

I think it's important to reflect on these things as best we all can, for the sake of each other and everyone's continued enjoyment. 

At the end of the day, as said above, we're all here to have fun and relax.

Two points I wish to bring up. The first is that there are some parts of these logs that make incredibly obvious certain participants - more so for one in particular, though I'm not name dropping. Perhaps certain parts should have been redacted harder to avoid this, because even with names censored, these logs literally do tell you who they are. Still, this is probably a better way forward than name dropping because you think everyone already knows their names at this point, which is a relief to see.

I think that horse is probably best left dead, especially since it was exhaustingly explained within its' relevant thread at the time.
Different situations call for different solutions, with all their nuanced specifics taken into consideration. Time and shifts in policies also affect these things. 

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Hello, Totally corrupt:tm: leader here who is pretty obvious to anyone with any degree of critical thinking after reading those logs

This is pretty much my biggest complaint about this, as this has done no favors for my current slow burnout.

Outside of the otherwise callout-nature of the post, as if that server didn't have a GM present (Out of respect will ALSO remain nameless - They dont really participate in any of the conversations posted.. or any conversation whatsoever, really.) who could have probably stepped in at any time to simmer things down. Which - to an extent, I'd assume isn't their job to police that server. But if we are going to be pulling logs from other servers as evidence of anything, I feel as if there is that specific aspect not being mentioned here.

Unfortunately, it's probably not going to be a common thing to see, for a GM to act as a GM when they've joined an external server as a player.
The sheer amount of servers and chats and things that we're all in are typically not our responsibility to moderate.

We're only responsible for the official SL2 related servers, and while if we see a problem elsewhere sometimes we might step in and try to help correct things, I wouldn't bank on it.
Nor should it imply from our silence that any of us are okay with/agree with what's going on, just because we exist somewhere.

That being said, I do believe there are some people who could be better. The most I can say for myself is I was frustrated at the time. I'd litterally gone to sleep early because of physical health issues only for certain events to transpire while I was asleep. Events I'd figured the GMs themselves would be aware of and be able to communicate to the antagonist in question the potential issues or drawbacks of their actions - or that the GM would atleast reach out to me for clarification on certain aspects around our nations statues, seeing as the action was GM approved. Its not even as if all of them were guarded. But that was one of the ones that was

It does also mean the people who were guarding the statues failed because they weren't on at a specific point in time. Which feels kinda..shitty? This kinda stuff is why I always direct people towards certain players should another breakout occur. Because they are usually in charge of the defense efforts and would probably be an active participant in stopping them. And this does matter in my opinion


Especially in a militaristic nation where success and failure mean alot for your career, in addition to the way you carry yourself.

I understand the frustration here. I don't think it's fair to blame the people meant to be guarding things, even ICly. While it's less than ideal in this situation and proper communication between all relevant parties could have probably avoided it, I do think that in this case it could be explained as a simple mistake IC, or an opening during a shift change or some such that was banked on. It's less catastrophic than it sounds, and ultimately isn't the same as the breakout and all the problems with that before. 

Ideally, obviously, this should have been talked about beforehand and worked out, but all we can do is move forward. 

It can be argued that I should have placed signs, though I am not a huge fan of this approach to things. Especially considering the reason they were being guarded was for event related things seperate from the antagonist who targetted the statues. Who would have probably been made aware of this by the people writing for the eventline, presumably.

I don't think it's a clean cut fault of any one person in this case. Signs, noticeboard channels, announcement channels, etc. all probably could have helped those not in higher rank private channels to see and know these things and take them into consideration but the same could be said for taking the steps to hunt down the answer and communicate.
All good solutions, all would have helped in some form, probably. 

I didn't exactly anticipate someone would just walk right in, break the statue, and leave. A thing that has been around for 200+ years with the mystical power to create contracts for summoners. An event that is mechanically "yeah okay sure" but ICly a rather important thing for summoners. - Esspecially since as it currently stands - no one should actually know how to rebuild them - My character specifically is supposed to teach people about that Youkai. Among other characters aswell - and this severely inconvieniences new summoners ICly. This would be effectively like if I said I went around and destroyed the Nemalyth crystals around the world ICly. Somthing useful for everyones progression. But no one knows how the fuck these things work.

I think the best thing I can say in response to this is...that I don't expect things to stay static or unmalleable in Korvara, else it'd be pretty boring. Just because it's not happened prior to now doesn't mean it's impossible, and truly, there's a lot of things that are very possible, lore-wise. Take for example the fact that G6 works differently and there aren't any silly youkai statues there, it's just how the Korvarans have managed to do the same thing on their island. We're in the same world, still, the lore is still what it is. Just through a slightly different lens. 

There's also much to be gleaned from scouring what little ruins we have available on the maps, and digging into things that once were, to better understand the ancient Korvarans and how they did this or that. IC-wise, that is. It's not impossible for someone to study and dig and probably find the information, or clues to a puzzle that they then have to solve.

It's kind of the point of events, to open that door for people to explore ICly, and find solutions for problems that crop up. 

Usually when I see people writing eventlines or villians its usually to provide - And to an extent, it does. But it feels like cleaning up rather than what it should feel like. And now theres a precedent in which a main source of a characters class progression can be outright destroyed. Which will probably lead to more cleaning down the line. Which might sound fun the first time. But probably alot less fun the next ten. Currently it feels as if the eventline takes more than it provides upon first impressions.

Without echoing what I just outlined, I will say...strife is something being provided here. Antagonists all tend to have that in common, they just carry it out differently.

At the end of the day it's kind of doing that already, there's definitely an incentive to do something about both the antagonist and the broken statues. 

It's okay, they'll definitely be fixed by the end of the eventline. If they were going to be removed permanently, that would be another matter entirely and I think the outrage would be justified. 

Either way, it's not really meant to be a personal attack on anyone or their chosen classes. It's meant for fun, and expanding RP.
It's definitely okay to dislike where it's going, but I don't think it's very fair to invalidate it as a whole.

Others are seemingly enjoying it and rolling with it, and I hope anyone truly upset by it can also find enjoyment somewhere in it as it progresses. 

Overall my source of frustration is still there - as I figured a built in part of GM approval would have been proper communication. But I have bite my tongue, recover from stress-headaches and deal with it ICly after the fact. And apparently put up signs.

Feel free to drop some DMs to try to witch hunt me or whatever. I dont think anything I said in the logs were extremely wrong.

But I am incredibly tired at this point, and frustrated I even have to worry about the possibility to begin with.

I hope things settle and become a little less stressful from here.
I know running a faction is rough and very taxing in every way imaginable, but for what it's worth I think you're doing a decent job despite the stress and difficulties thus far. 

Please let us know if anyone decides to take you up on that offer, cause I'd hate to see that happening to anyone involved.
The point here wasn't to lay blame and call names, but to illustrate that how we talk to each other is important, and that it needs to be better.

[Snake]

The solution to that discussion in particular would be making a thread about how that was handled so we get a mid point, not play witches brewery and stuff every ounce of frustration you bunch get into a cauldron to concoct the most deadly poison to about any sapient human being's mental health: The Zoomer Special™.

I might be wrong, I might be on point, but I think the point here is 'If you can't help, don't make it worse'.

Also saying that "A GM was here and let us do this, they should have appeared and stopped it!!!" isn't really da wae in my opinion. Unless that claim comes along that all GMs have omniscience and are shaped on God's very own image. If so? Sign me up to be a GM too, I always wanted to be a superhero IRL.

But if that'd make me be subject to be objectified by every person I cross on the server? Ew. I don't even know why most of those even care anymore.

Sucks seeing you all being so anal about people who were once players, like you bunch.

[Karidan]

Outside of the otherwise callout-nature of the post, as if that server didn't have a GM present (Out of respect will ALSO remain nameless - They dont really participate in any of the conversations posted.. or any conversation whatsoever, really.) who could have probably stepped in at any time to simmer things down. Which - to an extent, I'd assume isn't their job to police that server. But if we are going to be pulling logs from other servers as evidence of anything, I feel as if there is that specific aspect not being mentioned here.

I'd like to reply to this part specifically, as I am the one who is in a great deal of servers across SL2 as a whole.

Generally speaking, the grounds I'm invited to servers on is so a GM is present incase a quick ping is needed to be asked about something or to take care of internal matters whenever it's needed. This is something that I do, and have done every single time it's been asked of me.

Those grounds are not to watch those servers like a moderator for that server to search for every single incident of firestarting. I usually have faith in the community of this game that they don't need me watching them every second of every day to stop them from doing the things that prompted the start of this thread in the first place.

Recently, I dropped my entire life, packed it up in a U-haul and moved across the country to an entirely new start, this process has consumed a vast portion of my time since October. Fairview was the last major thing on Sl2 that I was around for, and is partially the reason why I have not been around in as solid of a capacity over the subsequent months.

This post never should have been needed in the first place, and I shouldn't have to add extraneous servers to my watch-list to stop people from adding to a toxic inferno.

If your first thought is "Kari should've stopped this, he was there."
Then you should consider "I should have stopped myself."

[Tana]

The thing that confuses me most here is the timing.

Days before these logs, Duyuei characters had already noted a smashed statue and were actively investigating and ICly finding out how to do fixing. Successfully.

So I don't get why it turned into some weird OOC thing; Isn't the point of Korvfefe the whole... We can do IC things that have consequences?

Someone figured out how to do a dumb, we ICly fix the dumb with a method that makes that method of doing a dumb not work, we move on with our lives after having something to focus on and RP about.

[Balor]

Don't post here often, I left the game several months ago, and while I poke my head in on occasion. Rarely do I stick around long enough to be around. This is just to clarify that I do lack context as to what has gone on the past several months since Korvara dropped.

Reading through this thread it's very discouraging on several levels because even without context I feel that we've been here before. I don't say this to sass anyone in charge, or to shame anyone in the logs. This is all just very familiar, and a rethread of past incidents, arguments, and disagreements

It seems that there are fundamental issues with the systems at play, and the GM team want them to get better, as do the players. It seems that everyone wants the same thing, so what's stopping you?

[Balthie]

Heya gang.
This'll probably be my only comment for a couple days whilst I take a moment to myself.

I just want to start by saying this plainly;
Thank you.

Both in public and in private, I've received not only an unexpectedly huge amount of appreciation and support, but also highly valid feedback and criticism.
Perhaps I should've expected the former, in truth. Much of this community has experienced being on the receiving end of stuff like this. Much of this community still does experience it. And, unfortunately, I can confirm that it still goes on. It's to you who've been hurt by the way people treat one another behind the scenes that our present efforts to rework policy are dedicated; but know that even the people who do and have done this- a larger percentage of the community than you'd be comfortable with -are not villains, nor evil, nor to be condemned. They too are victims, either of the same in the past, or of the other side of the coin, involuntarily brought into a mindset where they feel able to do this.
None are beyond your forgiveness. And none are beyond treating you with kindness.

Truthfully, though, I'm just as thankful to the people who've brought me the feedback and criticism.
You are valued. Every last one of you.


But, onto business. I'll keep it very brief.

Feel free to drop some DMs to try to witch hunt me or whatever.

No. I've said it here. I've said it in the announcement, in the doc, in general chat. In DMs repeatedly, to both involved parties and uninvolved parties.

Do not witch hunt. Do not harass. Do not target other players with hostile or exclusionary behavior. Any other players. Even ones you personally think may have done something icky.
That does not help anybody.
If you do so, you are explicitly part of the problem. If you do so, then it was you that the harsh stance taken in the harassment guidelines was meant for.

I'll say it once more, for good measure.
If anybody, just as much so the people featured in that log, feels that they're receiving targeted negativity, contact one of us immediately. I'll be just as harsh in defense of you as of any other.

We don't build one another up on unkindness.

I dont think anything I said in the logs were extremely wrong.

I actually agree. In fact, I agree so much that this was spoken in specific reference of you.
Something that I know you were made aware of before posting, actually.



I for one not only thought that you only came across as frustrated and disconnected from the more targeted discussion, but made note that I'd thought that people around you had resolved the situation amicably, and that any frustration should be treated with understanding.



During the time in which things had been resolved, I was asleep. When I woke up and saw the situation, I was assured that people around you had communicated with the player in question and resolved most of the lingering issues. I had- and still have -full trust in the players involved in that rectification, so I admit that I thought you'd settled your hearts on the matter some.
I can see now that isn't true and that your frustration is still lingering. I apologise for not coming around after any assurances to make sure things truly were settled.


That said, events regarding the statue smashing are secondary to the real point of the doc, as is I hope relatively clear. This is, was, and always has been about the way we treat one another, which is... significantly larger of an issue.
This feedback does, however, slightly reframe a lot of the wider investigation the team has been doing, in my mind. I will be raising some key points with the team in an effort to subtly change our perspective on the last month of logs we've been combing through.

Specifically, the overwhelming positive response towards the idea of change and healthier mindsets- even from people who have told me in the past day that they're part of the problem -has struck a chord in me that rings peaceful and reassuring.
You all want change away from this atmosphere too. Change away from a problem that has weighed down SL2 for years.

It would be remisce of me to not follow my fundamental beliefs and morals here; people are fundamentally good, and none here have come in with the intent to cause harm.
Accordingly, I wish to move forwards not on the course to shame and deride the people in the vast quantity of logs we've combed through, but rather on the course set by the clear tone that rang out in the last half-day since the post.
Healing.

Going forth, I wish for us to be constructive and collaborative. It's what we deserve from one another.


But that's for later.
For the time being, I'm going to take a couple days off. Much of the team is running on fumes, and this post has already eaten up too much of my time and headspace. I need the time to contemplate and introspect, as we all should.
To all, but especially those involved; you continue to be welcome to message me for a chat or to send any statement or question you have, related or otherwise. My doors are open.

i'm fuckin' exhausted lmao

[Bylamir]

The thing that confuses me most here is the timing.

Days before these logs, Duyuei characters had already noted a smashed statue and were actively investigating and ICly finding out how to do fixing. Successfully.

So I don't get why it turned into some weird OOC thing; Isn't the point of Korvfefe the whole... We can do IC things that have consequences?

Someone figured out how to do a dumb, we ICly fix the dumb with a method that makes that method of doing a dumb not work, we move on with our lives after having something to focus on and RP about.

So to shed a bit of light (from my perspective) it didn’t even occur to contact GMs over doing the investigation since if I was gonna do it, it’d be with the person directly. Unfortunately no-one really knew who to ask so from my perspective, all we could discover was that a Youkai did it. That on top of the situation of it being ‘guarded’ which has been talked about at length caused a great deal of annoyance since it felt sort of out of anyone’s control. 

As I have said many a time, but that’s my perspective and how I felt at the time. I cannot say if it’s the other’s on it as I do not know.  Of course this has long since been discussed and a conclusion for how to proceed has been reached. Hoping this helps.

[WaifuApple]

This is an incredibly random post clearly intent to be inflammatory, to bring to a forum post that has already long since passed, likely off the back of another unrelated situation that this isn't even the place for. Not sure this helps anyone.

Edit: The post that this was referring to has since been deleted by the GMs, for those missing context. I have no complaints about this old post.

[Karidan]

It doesn't. Keep it chill in here, folks.