[Autumn]

I like the idea of that, doing one time quests and stuff for Legend Inks sounds like a great idea

[Ranylyn]

Rendar » Fri Feb 12, 2016 10:59 pm[/url]"]So long as these inks cannot be used on Divine or Vorpal enchants (for obvious cheesing reasons).

Apparently it's not so obvious if I need to ask why it's an "obvious cheesing reason."

Sure, there recenty been some new reasons to consider Divine (Eviter comes to mind) and Vorpal is always pretty nice, but if someone wants to spend TWO inks on one enchant as opposed to getting multiple LE bonuses, that's their choice. I've already blitzed LEs just to provide catalysts for other people in exchange for items/murai/was even offered asagos once, and I fail to see how this would be "a cheesing reason" when all it takes is a grindmage to basically get multiple catalysts per day anyways.

[Trexmaster]

I'd say that'd definitely be a step in the right direction for making the grind for the sake of getting inks a tiny bit easier. Or much easier depending on how many are made available. I'd be all in favor of it, since it'd also help older characters who already have stats they'd want to keep to get legend ink.

But, grinding as a whole isn't always about just getting legend inks. Most of the time the inks are just a byproduct of how many attempts it takes sometimes to get the desired stats. I can't really speak for everyone, but, personally it takes me at least 2-3 runs to get something I'll even want to use. And if I'm going for something I want to be -good-, I'll end up spending at least 10-11 runs, if not more. You might say 'but Trex, your standards are probably just too high!' well, yeah, sure, honestly they probably are now, but, I know for a fact a lot of other people are -also- shooting for similar standards. Given the naturally competitive nature of the game, considering the end-game is basically beating each other up in PvP, you want to stay competitive, and if everyone else starts aiming for higher stats, you probably should too (unless your build just doesn't care about most stats). My point is as time goes on, the average amount of times you'll need to LE a new character to compete with the older ones will only get higher. And, just for the record, this does actually tie into RP, too. PvP has a huge impact on it, as it's what the majority of public RP tends to lean toward.

I'll just say, on the subject of quests/lnet requests, providing ones that give worthwhile EXP bonuses would also be nice. As to what 'worthwhile' means...basically, if it's being done for the sake of earning EXP, and it -ISN'T- repeatable (for that LE, if you plan to go that route) it shouldn't be less time effective than just beating up monsters in the time it took to finish (I'm looking at you, 'Idiot Test'. Even though it's really just a joke request, it's one of the most rewarding ones we have at the moment). Though in the case of ones that'd grant exclusive items (like legend ink) it isn't as much of an issue. It's an alternative means to find something that's otherwise exclusive to a method that requires sacrificing your stats. So that's just fantastic. I'd also like to once again point to Zakizo's thread here if we're on the subject of l-net requests, I'd really like to see ones like they suggested. Just food for thought, I'm sure you've already got a fair grasp on what the new requests will be like.

I'm not asking to be able to zoom through 10+ LEs in a single day with ease, I just want grinding to be on a more even level between all the various builds and setups there are out there. And, I'll state again, I don't want this to be accomplished by dropping the ceiling into the floor. That just ruins the house.

(if my metaphor was too much, I mean I don't want the best method to be cut down to make it on par with the slower methods, that just makes life miserable for everyone)

[Zakizo]

@Ranylyn It's mainly the re-grinding that's in the way. I can understand the point about growths VS percentile bonus creating a larger gap between races, so let's strike that idea. As for LE making impossible builds possible, I believe that could actually be fixed with base classes. I'm not sure how feasible it'd be, but if base classes allowed you to select your growth spread (a Soldier base class, for example, when equipped would prompt you to select between a Black Knight, Tactician, or Demon Hunter growth spread), all of the growth options are open from level 1. Actually, I'm not sure where I was even going with the "removing promos on LE" idea, because the issue was needing to re-grind from grinding with base class stats... which I know isn't done for all characters, but it seems to be done for most of them. Even if I'm lucky enough to have one or two characters I never needed to re-grind, that doesn't help the 3 characters that I had to go through grinding a combined total of 6, or even 9 or 12 times for. That's a lot of time.

And if someone wants to grind endlessly until they get 80 base on a 105%... well, that's their choice, and their suffering.

it's your suffering too if you're waiting to RP with them.

As a final note, I'm not suggesting to remove the book's ability to level reset. No one wants to have to delete-character in the event that they can't even grind properly, so I'd rather it stayed if only for convenience sake in the event that any changes are made.

@Dev That would probably help, but I'm afraid that it won't do anything to the "eternal grind." So long as there are benefits to resetting a character, people will keep doing it, and people will keep grinding. Forever. It's not like SL1, where there came a time when people just relaxed and said "okay I'm finally done, now I can focus on RP." I don't mind legend extension being good, but the atmosphere of the game has changed drastically in a negative way since it was added, and the problem isn't in the fact that it opened up more builds, it's rooted in the fact that there are benefits for 'remaking.' I never thought it was something to be encouraged before, and I don't now. When I suggested a system that helped with remaking, I just wanted it to be less painful (not having to go through the hassle of having someone hold your stuff or lose your house, for example), not to give literal bonuses. I'm not saying take the bonuses or versatility away, I'm just saying that it may be best if it has nothing to do with remaking. People will remake if they feel they need to, I just don't think it should be encouraged. I miss when there was a time to stop and RP.

[Ranylyn]

it's your suffering too if you're waiting to RP with them.

This is why I try to avoid OOC grind unless I'm just going for something super gimmicky I need at least one LE for due to growth spreads. Everything IC can impact a final build. And that's actually pretty awesome.

As an example, let's use my Tannite-turned-papillion," Kelsey, to show how one can actually ICly run through several builds without needing to OOCly grind. Spoiler tagging because kinda long.

Originally a weakling with very little stamina who was kicked out of the Tannis Militia, he barely escaped when the Tannis Beast Raids started. Despite struggling with the force of recoil and having a hard time even pulling the triggers since he was so weak, he took up firearms in an attempt to protect his home. But it wasn't enough. The beasts were too fast, and time and time again, he was overwhelmed and barely escaped thanks to someone else's help. What he needed was power at any cost, consequences be damned. So he took up the void arts for a time. Trying, and failing, to keep it hidden, it was used very sparingly, in emergencies only, but.. well... people found out.

Naturally, those around him didn't take favorably to his dabbling, even if he avoided unsafe teleportation at all costs. After being treated for Stage 1 void poisoning a second time (I'd have gone to stage 2 if needed, but his entourage happened to include multiple priests, so it never had a chance to get that far.) his healer had had enough and finally managed to convice him into trying something else: If he was so determined to protect his home and friends, why not train under her to learn Mercana and provide support that way? Kelsey wasn't very good at magic, but considering it's okay to take awhile to heal someone properly when they're not immediately under attack, he agreed to at least try. This led to Kelsey's Priest/Bonder phase; Izabe Install, God Rod + Blessed River Sword Kel shenanigans, and of course, Sanctuary + Ingrain + Adversity Tunic making him a wall to rally behind. Kelsey was still pretty physically weak (only hitting at all because blessed weapon, and only enduring because of magical assistance) but was becoming a reliable person that people turned to for help....

... so reliable, in fact, that he managed to convince an engineer with connections to Karaten to put in a good word for him to try to take him along as a research assistant; mechanations fascinated him and he wondered if perhaps they could help serve as replacement Tannis Militiamen to replace those killed by the beasts. After a long period of time, he finally got permission to accompany a research team into the Mechana Forest. And this is where everything went wrong. Kelsey's blind faith in Mercala led him to believe her blessing would protect him from the corruption, so he made a trail in the forest floor with his sword as he snuck off to explore a little deeper out of curiosity. While he did finally manage to escape, he started sneezing up butterfly illusions.

Kelsey was enraged. Mercala must be a sham! All the murai he'd donated, all the prayers he'd sent... nothing! Life as a human was over, and he was shunned by some people he onced considered his closest companions. The Mercana was dropped faster than you can say "wait." But it wasn't all bad. The illusions gave him an unexpected edge. Cobra Stance was used to emulate illusions, with him always one step behind where he appeared to be. Kelsey also still had his trusty Izabe to serve as another distraction, so he was free to swing away with all his might, which slowly, finally, helped to give him a bit of upper body strength so he wouldn't be a total weakling.

But that wasn't enough. Angry and lashing out, Kelsey wanted his nemeses, the beasts, to feel his pain, to feel his fear. Currently, Kelsey is a physical hexer/bonder, after levelling as a Dh, and armed with a Spectre Sword... but still carrying a simple handgun on his person as a backup. Kelsey still has his trusty Izabe companion, who may seem a little out of place, but serves as a reminder of how far he's come, and how much improvement remains to be made.

... so yeah. While I'm not in favor of "lololol I'm suddenly this other class that's 100% unrelated to my old style now" which is exactly what many people try to avoid by grinding up first before they roleplay, there's definitely ways to make it work, and it's definitely more the fault of the players than the LE system for not being able to RP with them because grindfest.