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Re: Opinions on the state of the game
#18
(10-22-2020, 05:37 PM)Neus Wrote: First of all thanks for putting the effort in, with discussing with us and listening to our worries and complaints to properly work something out, to enhance everyones experience.

OOC Characters/Existing OOC
  • I think OOC characters are fine, aslong as they lurk around areas like the "OOC" room. To some extent I would probably prefer if the Test server was basically permamently avaibale or manually hostable.This would make it easy and low effort to build test, even with very difficult to get item, like 10*. Its also in certain cases "Unoffical" ways to get normal players better ways to host mini events for their own Cliques by quick creating certain mobs. Its not the cure of all by all means, but it can make people not stand around "unacessable" in the OOC corner, cause their real characters would still be avaiable and could be pinged for attention.(Which I am certainly guilty of, as I haven't even logged into the games for months outside of sometimes checking out updates and RP mostly in discord if at all.)




Quote:Applications for Events, Requests, Lore, Etc.



Clarity and transperency is certainly an issue I struggle with and is disheartening in many cases. I have been waiting for 4+ years on clarifications on one single event. An Event that is very essential to my chracter and with how time flies in game, this resulted in her basically twiddleing her thumbs for soon 30 IC years. While time is a bit objective within the game world, I feel that is also a big disconnect when one person is RPing the time accurately to ingame time and some others cause it makes realisitcally more sense to not have a stare down for 3 days straight during an RP fight thats probably taking les than 5 minutes. It creates awkward situations where someones child is suddenly of legal age while you basically only made it progress a few days since you were "scene locked" in an event that took forever.
While people often joke it off one way or another and try tow ork around it, its certainly immersion breaking, even more so when you RP a character who is putting a lot of value into "DOING" what they say as soon as possible just to wait 30 years with not a inch of progress.
I do not think I need to eleborate on how this is frustrating and not making you feel as you can reach literally anything.
Quote:Community: Cliques
A nessecary evil that is unfortuantely not good for "Newbies". I think it can't really be helped all that much, except that a trent that I used to notice back then, was that there were only certain people that basicaly spotlight hogged every single event at all times, simply by being a bigger clique/stronger mechanically tot he point that event actively got catered around them.

This isn't a you problem, and more a Community problem. But being aware that eventmins certainly should help and pick up the smaller people and allow them shine in their own way is definetly something people should keep in mind. Its disheartening when the difficulty of events and the only solutions to them is catered to for exampled a PVP squad.

Sometimes our local Heros simply need to be "Cock blocked" so to say. They can't get every "trophy" in the game.


Quote:World Rigidity & Lack of Roles
I pack them together as this is a bit of the same deal in this. And I certainly do not attempt to attack you here, but simply retell my personal experiences with that, and why I believe why this statement of yours is...A bit of a punch in the face. While also trying to get one clear statement of how your current mindset on those things is, as times certainly change.

I have to start with this from almost 5 years in the past. Back then, le me was a very active (and only active together with my guild) member of the Laws End. I figured that this sand box was...A bit too much sand and too little anything else so I wanted to make it more interesting while keeping its theme of being a Lawless and dangerous place.
Over the time I came up with the idea to "Develope" the place to be more meaningful in the "Underworld", I am sure you remember me sending you serval drafts ideas and fishing for the greenlight regarding a blackmarket with very exclusive items/arena etc.
Which you eventually did! Great, that was awesome! You put on the simple conditions that I have to do a couple events regarding that raging from Caravan raids towards getting yourself known with other big underworld fishes. Colaborated with a couple of players there and did it. Another condition you set to me was that I provide the map for it, which I eventually send you and early alpha of (basically just a redesign of the Laws End pub, with a secret entry down to a room which was very barebone with a fer carpets/tents supposedly for the shops, made by skulls cause I can't map for the life of me).
So then I didn't get an answer from you, I also was a bit shy because I didn't really want to bother you so there is a bit of blame from me to take for not pushing it. So I dropped it for a while participated in other relatively meaningful events for my characters and got distracted but eventually I wrote you again with a plot progression of this, and here is where I feel like this is a little bit of a smack in the face as you say we do not really make any efforts in fleshing the stories out at all and they basically boild down to just wanting to bomb X/Y (I am aware this was hardly a personal thing, but since up to this date nothing any direction regarding this plot has ever happend I feel like its a good time to point out as it doesn't give the impression that you can actually become what you claim we can.)

I post a very short version here, cause that plot was gigantic, written over serval pages connected with alot of research and reading of already established lore:
  • My charatcer played part in an event with supposedly high stakes/high rewards run by Chaos.
  • During this event, my character lost their dominant arm permanently (also no repalcement possible) and was crippled from neck down for 2 IC years. In exchange for that since she basically won the game with the highest possble reward, she asked how to find the Kraken god Grave and how to get there and perfom the ritual to godhood step by step. (This is something I wait since 3 years now on any sort of feed back and progression towards the storyline..As this is obviously huge so I didn't want to push for it either.)
  • Since just getting OP for no reason what so ever isn't really satisfying I worked out a huge plot that connected to my previous established control of caravan raids, this plot included the involvement of basically every Clan that has been established by you in the Offical Oniga forum. It went from working with the Kusaragi (I think it was them I honestly haven't looked it up in a while anyway they hate the current tennnou and are masters of information gathering/manipulation and seek a new strong leader). Then the already established caravan raids as a usage of artifically creating even more provety in Oniga to keep the people on the fence, using fake propaganda to fan the unrest more and step by step lead it up to a Civil war against the current Tennou, which then would be hijacked by my character to support the Rebellion and work towards winnign the war and becoming tennou themselves.
  • Once in a position of more global power, and since all of this has been by design to begin with they could artifically increase the wealth of people again, by simply not withholding the resorces they have gathered over time and with the obviously decreaed number of living people (they just came from a war afterall, so casulties are kinda  a given) she would creat a feeling of "stuff getting better".
  • In reality while she also wanted to work something out with the Emporer of Sigrogana which I wanted more specific input from you from as I only have some rough ideas and theories what the true resaon for Sigrogana/Oniga war and the gold curse is, she would use her new position of power to furhter build up Laws End and enhance the lives of those there cause in the end of the day, that place is her home and she cares deeply for it and their people and whats to better their life.
  • She wanted to work out something to truly lift the Gold Curse and bring true change and prosperty to both Oniga AND Laws End.

    I am sure I had more worked out, something that also invovled  Sawrocks Vampire Clan at that time cause they had very specific beef with Oniga and would have been a colaboration with dear Sawrock. This whole thing was stomped down with one line from you.
    "I have plans for the Tennou." While I respect that, 3 years later nothing has happend around Oniga nor anything regarding my plot and I am frozen in time forced to do nothing.

    Again this is by no means an attack. But I feel this certainly a lot deeper than just "I wanna blow up X" with more than just a one demensional "Villain" that while the methods are certainly crazy, means greater good. (It never mattered to me if this was truly succesful, but this eventline had a lot of potential in many ways for people to take active part in it and change the world in one way or another). So while definetly not the best plot ever to live, and even if Tennou was a big no-no, many parts of this plot could have been adjusted slightly one way or another and mayhaps shifted to an "Do my own thing, but kinda like this just differently?"...
    So yes that one liner after I went through a lot of Events, some very depressing ones for my character and literally crippling ones, and the lose of serval of her close friends during these events wasn't really encouraging to try anything at all as it just seemed undesired. Which is why I want a clearer statement here and if anything of this is remotely possible, even if in alternative forms. (If not Tennou I am certain I could probably pull a similiar plan without the Civil war part for example)

    I do write Chaos from time to time about and progress about this, because my last info was he is working something out with you. Chaos as much as I love him as an Admin though isn't really...Responsive most of the time and tends to "forget" and I tend to be "I do not wanna bother them too much". Which is a bad combination of personalties when you are trying to make something work. And this has been for over 3 years now. If a change to that would come, even if its just a clear "Nah, not posisble at all" or a "You can probably go up to that point and no further" is indefinetly better than the uncertainy one expereince in the many years of literal silence and the simple "We are working something out" statement.
I'd highly appriciate if you read this and gave a clear answer, I am certain this also helps other peoples to get an idea of what could be possible, as this certainly is an extreme case of trying to influence the world.

Quote:Conflict, Rules of Engagement
  • I gave my personal thought about that in the other forum.

Quote:Personal Thoughts About Other Things

This is an unpopular opinion, which I can also understand the people that are iffy about it. But personally? Some of the best, most magical and interesting moments I had Pre-GR. Even though the gameplay was so much more flawed and less polished. It was still the better RP in my opinion.

This is a bit of a rant, and trip down my memory lane and "Best of" SL2 from what I experienced and why it felt to me more special than many of the engagements I feel in the more modern SL2, while in a weaker form they still exist...Its...Well not as meaningful anymore in most cases. you do not need to read it, but I think the "must have 60" mindset is party due to the lack of what I remember as being great.

  • I play SL2 ever since it came out, with my off and on times when I felt burnt out from it. I know that I was one of the first ten to reach 60 back then (probably even first 5 but there is no real way of checking that and unsignificant to the matter). While a bit trivial I remember a innocent scene in the pub where we oh so happend to be together with some of the currently highest level people all on one table, and people starting to joke that we could literally solo the rest of the server, while of course just a jest it was kinda a cool feeling, cause leveling back then? Was a chore and a half.

  • Another dear memory I have was a time where I have been working on the character (remaking afew times cause we didn't have LE system back then and I wanted to more optimize what I was doing as I got a better Idea of what charatcer I want to play. Full on Ice/sword fighter. Naturally since the stats back then were all RNG, and I remade a couple of times to get more useful stats for me, I was fairly strong. But so where certain other. Others not so much and...They knew it. So I remember the episode of a Knight, that I shall not call his trendy name, and some IC drama about some supposed cheating and people (literally) picking up pitchforks and torches to chase this man down, who has been known at that point of time to be...Terribly strong spearman, and he was! So people actually had to gather a mob! They even asked me ICly to assist them cause I was fairly strong at the time as well.
    Get this! Someone was literally so strong and feared, that people who were upset with him had to gather a literal lynchmob to confront him! that. Is badass. While the person in question certainly felt more than one headache about this OOCly, from an RP perspective? This is a huge accomplishment. that this situation was absolutely ridiclious made it one of my most fondly remembered memories, something current SL2 will never have in this form again (cause the person in question wasn't really impressed by the lynchmob, more than he was annoyed). this also lead to my first real meaningful character interaction with said person, as my character choose to not help the lynchmob and they had a little heart to heart instead (and she proceeded to duel him, and if memory serves right, she won too even if barely. Unimportant to the story!). Something I like to note is...People weren't caring so much about reaching level 60. Many were fine and comfortable around level 45-50. Because it was very hard to level at that point, and RP actually did you better than running the dungeons (kinda, of course you could have done both and level faster, but meh). I feel that the random RNG and feeling happy with your rolls to that point played into it as well, making you feel more confident.

  • Next! Was another very fond memory that I have up to this very date, and I hold very dear. It was during some of my off time and just returning to the game, I was a bit holdign back, so many new faces (which wasn't because people remade, but because we just had a influx of new people. So people I had connection with were still around ICly) and one of them being Fern. He had been around a bit at that point, so he kinda figured I was new. We interacted a bit, RPed and fought in the Arena. He absolutely destroyed me, because my build was outdated and it was the time where LE had been around already, so I had a unlucky "run" at that point as well.
    What was funny to me was, that this NOOB had the guts to tell ME icly that my charatcer was weak. This was hilarious to me on many levels, cause from established IC she knew she was better. So it ICly hurt her pride, gave me a bit of incentive OOCyl to regrind and we started a beautiful rivalry between us, training, competing each other and rising each other to higher heights with each run. Spo eventually joined that "rivalry" and another terrifyingly strong swordman.
    This rivalry was ICly beautiful for many reasons. It had conflict. It had the feeling of accomplishment when you reworked this tedious grind and got better rolls AND equipment (Back then 10* weren't the shit (with the exception of unarmored turtleshell, which I feel by todays standarads actually has a right to exist again with how squishy dodgers are.)...the Shit was randomly generated items with very specific materials and enchantments on them...For me it was one sword that suddenly made me like 25% stronger...Rustic Arctic Yukijin! (with positive quality rolls) ...By todays standard literally a trash item, but back then? *chefkiss*... Also finding that item took me and serval people who helped over a year to get. Cause you couldn't just handwave a material kit or tools to even out these flaws in the weapon, what you got is what you got.
    All of this? was a long journey. A lot of lost sanity in the alot more painful grinds than people are used to today, combined with frustration when you missed a single roll in your 60 levels of randomly generated stats and absolutely glee when you unexpectingly next to all of your main stats somehow happend to also get Vit/def so you are not only dodgy but relatively tanky. And people that were newer recognized that as well, titles lile "Local Behemoths of Badlands Arena" were tossed around, and some of those people there genuinely able to 1 v 2 others of equal level. Simply by putting more effort into it. ICly at this point you were recognized as something and you had a REAL journey of growth over just "grind to 60 and done". While the system back then certainly had flaws and I do not want to go back to RNG stats, It did progression still a lot better than todays SL2.
    While some of those titles are still tossed around todays...Its not because you put alot of work in it, but because you happen to play the current meta or simply hardcounter someone. I feel its far less deserved and making you feel accompliehd then back then, and it fades more and more away with each update that heavily shifts the balance around. 
  • The next memory, I vividly remember and made a huge impact on serval people even to this date was around the time where bloeden and his gang existed. My character had been a resident of Laws End, long before they appeared. I remember great interactions between bloeden attempting to assert dominance over my character and "taking over" Laws End, which either hilariously failed or because Sawrock is a great RPer when the muse strikes him...In just memorable interactions that are entirely out of the left field. Long story short, he wanted my character to join him, she didn't want to because she believed Laws End didn't need a leader and she is against it, but he can do whatever he wants. While he didn't like it, and they kept clashing in hilarious interactions, he and his group became known as "Leaders" of Laws End, because they were the ones actively stirring up shit and my Character didn't care as that title held no meaning to her.
    Eventually the sad day appeared where Bloeden after the more or less failed execution of the emporer (or rather his revival) was captured and soon brought to the axe, for the ONLY real interaction we EVER had between us and you(Dev) in RP. One that was actually player driven and not around the convienant new map of Cellsvich for example.
    So with him gone and his gangs remains scattering, people assumed Laws End was up for takes. Cause the assumed Leader was dead. My character was still not thinking that that place needed a leader as it was a place of freedom for her...So she clashed with serval groups that wanted to "take over", and back then, I could do that alone because I was stronger than the average person. I could effectivle hold the fort to to speak.
    The most memorable group that tried to bring "laws" and protection to Laws End, was a guild named "Black Guards", while my character didn't approve of that, they also saw benefits in having them around and hijacked their guild more or less to supervise them. Time passed and eventually they had a little fall out, based on my chgaracter disliking that they recruit children/child like character to a place that is as dangerous as Laws End....fast forward-> She humiliated the Guild leader, in an attempt to make sure she would never do anything like that again and the Guild retaliated in an attempt to bring my character down in a 4 versus 1.
    While that fight was a mess and a half from an OOC perspective as there was a lot of grief and OOC communication involved that even made that gank possible, I accepted it and played it out. An epic battle unfolfded, not all of them were maxed, and I was clearly better prepared for the fight as I had experience with Laws End stuff and had potions and stuff..I won. Pretty Sure Fern also got invovled had his on fight with another person outside of that but...Now there I was, having basically 4 people at my mercy, and frankly from an IC standpoint I should have probably killed them. I hate doing that OOCly though, and this is my favorite memory of why you do not just kill...So what I did was give those people a sort of ultimatum. One of the 4 people, that she icly saw potential is...She recruited. She told the rest to disband the blackguards and leave Laws End.
    So why do I like this so much? Because this significantly effected serval characters. My Character, up to this date has the person she recruited that day as her loyal servant. The leader of that FC was traumatized ICly and had certianly alto to chew through ICly and while sad, it certainly added to their character growth (I certainly hope they felt similar, but from later conversations it seemed that way.) a thrid of those characters, turned into a hateful psycopath ICly. Who many years later encoutered them and had obvious tension because of it (ironically they met in Jail, which was probably the only good time I had in Jail). This was great on many many levels for many storylines. Not only was it an accomplishment for me, that being prepared/stronger/knowing what I do that neted me a situations where I could have just as well lost my character as a win, but I felt from an RP perspective this was a good developement most people could be "happy" with, seen longterm.
I am sharing those memories because, they kind of point out that people do not all need to be "Equal" and "Fair". If power is handled responsible it can be very rewardning, also for the people that do not have it. Another point is that SL2 in its current state is TOO convieniant in many ways, that it takes away this feeling of growth of accomlishment because the ceiling, the absolute top, is reached fairly easy so people think they might as well just go there and "Max out"....I do not think SL2 should be so easy to "Max Out", if at all.
I had REALLY big hopes when the rework of the Crafting system was announced, but my concerns with it are pretty simple...Its once again just...Kinda halfhearted without any real accomlishment tied to mastering a craft. No real work (even if harder now) and once you are done and have it maxed? You might as well forget about it. Jobs are still very much a joke...Same as the progression system. Most items get trivalized by the fact that material kits/quality tools exist, so have a "masterwork" smith make something good, is worthless...I much rather have it so, that you could level up higher (further enhance the chance for quality rolls/maybe even better ones if you truly want to keep tools) and that this grind doesn't nessecailry "max out". You just eventually take very long to see any progress, but longterm? having a level 12 smith, over 10 is a little accomlishment on itself, even though they probably don't get much benefit out of it. Though I guess you could justify applying for a custom made weapon then, that you smith yourself. RPing as a blacksmith that can make "one of a kind" weapons? That would be pretty cool and feel rewarding.

By today standards...nothing makes me less interested in a character than being "done" with them. Which in terms of progression I acheive in less than a day. Then there will be never any form of progress. neither meaningfully ICly storywise nor strength growth for those battle freaks..Or crafts for those support chars. (Globally speaking, outside of slice of life and in character events that are otherwise meaningless)

A bit of wisdom I feel many forget, when they get on the fence when I try to suggest to take away the "training wheels" of SL2 and its handholding.... One can only fully appriciate what they have, if they also suffered for it. The amount to happiness one can feel, is expotentional to the amount of challange and effort put into it...Also why games like Dark souls feel extremely rewarding.

TL;DR:
I feel more insignificant in this game, than I feel in real life...Thats an accomplishment on itself...But not a welcome one in a game where I am supposedly part of the "1%".
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Messages In This Thread
Re: Opinions on the state of the game - by Neus - 10-22-2020, 05:37 PM
RE: Opinions on the state of the game - by Shujin - 11-12-2020, 07:28 PM

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