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Spirit Mirror. Again.
#11
(12-29-2021, 10:13 PM)Tana Wrote: Spirit mirror really doesn't feel so broken that it needs to be bashed into a huge sign saying 'look at my equipment'. It already felt kind of abusive that people could see it was there from the buff list.

The whole point of stuff like mysterious is entirely so things like this can be a surprise. You are sacrificing a good bit for a gamble that half the time - Or more - Doesn't pay off. When my ranger runs into spirit mirror, it never even impacts how things play out.

If it's going to hammered in final destination fox only style, it should also recharge every few turns or something, or get a skill to let you re-apply it.

Narcus doesn't come as a huge "Fuck you" surprise to people because of its effect, Spirit Mirror should fall under the same effect and be treated exactly the same way, as you could just eat anywhere from 100-200 damage on average, or even up to 1k damage from your own ryemei, whatever happens to it afterwards is not of my concern. (Though do not be mistaken, it is incredibly strong, despite your experiences)
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#12
(12-29-2021, 10:13 PM)Tana Wrote: Spirit mirror really doesn't feel so broken that it needs to be bashed into a huge sign saying 'look at my equipment'. It already felt kind of abusive that people could see it was there from the buff list.

The whole point of stuff like mysterious is entirely so things like this can be a surprise. You are sacrificing a good bit for a gamble that half the time - Or more - Doesn't pay off. When my ranger runs into spirit mirror, it never even impacts how things play out.

If it's going to hammered in final destination fox only style, it should also recharge every few turns or something, or get a skill to let you re-apply it.

Mysterious has a myriad of other things it can hide, like your exact HP/FP values to avoid people making risky plays for a guaranteed lethal if they were aware of your remaining health.

In the event you have no idea who your opponent is or what they're running Spirit Mirror can indeed be a gamble, but if you've got your opponents setup downloaded and know they heavily depend on projectile-based attacks for damage you just slot in a Spirit Mirror. Very few out-of-combat applied statuses are this impactful when hidden by Mysterious. Something like a custom-tome reflect is going to be seen cast and only linger for a round or two, whereas Reflect Projectile lingers for 10 rounds and is active before the fight begins--longer than most 1v1s will go for, where Spirit Mirror sees the most value.

Making Spirit Mirror plainly visible would hardly impact its effectiveness, it wouldn't need to be buffed to compensate for no longer being able to trick people, as most players will already assume someone with Mysterious has a Spirit Mirror, and only ever be tricked by it due to undocumented changes to what used to be projectiles changing into non-projectiles or being in the minority that just doesn't know Spirit Mirror exists. Knowing its there still means you have to play around it unless you can get by dealing 0 projectile-flagged damage the whole fight or remove the buff without losing any momentum/taking damage in the process.

Spirit Mirror has always been something you'd use to counter a specific playstyle, I will shed no tears if it's made so that only those who actually wear the item get to benefit from its existence rather than being a boogeyman to anyone who might be affected by it when they see Mysterious/Mask of Metal.
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#13
Honestly I'd just prefer if Spirit Mirror only worked against mobs instead of players. There's no counterplay. It's not like it's build-based, either, where one has advantage over another due to stats or skills- such as a crit user being better against low LUC opponents, or a void assassin being better against a mage. It's not niche like a heart of stone being good against charm builds. It's too widely encompassing.
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#14
putting all your eggs in one basket countered by one item you can check for by sending any projectile over for 3m. right. spirit mirror is once per battle, leave it alone. there are bigger fish to fry for balance. no indicator needed, no refresh needed, just play with it in mind.
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#15
Parroting what was already dissected and argued against adds nothing to the conversation, repeating what was already counter-argued amounts to nothing.
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#16
(12-30-2021, 10:23 AM)HaTeD Wrote: putting all your eggs in one basket countered by one item you can check for by sending any projectile over for 3m. right. spirit mirror is once per battle, leave it alone. there are bigger fish to fry for balance. no indicator needed, no refresh needed, just play with it in mind.

And those problems can be addressed in their own threads without steering away from the original, everyone's points have already been made in this thread should you choose to offer anything else without any downplay.
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#17
(12-29-2021, 08:15 PM)Trexmaster Wrote:
(12-29-2021, 10:57 AM)Kazzy Wrote: No, it shouldn't have an indicator. If someone is using an accessory that allows ONE PROJECTILE be reflected, then that in and of itself is the balancing factor.


We can't see badges, we can't see rings, we can TECHNICALLY see helmets because lol mask of metal, so why would this accessory be any different?



Accept the L and move on. You got counterplayed for putting all your eggs into one basket.

Amber already touched on most of my points, but I will point out that comparing Spirit Mirror to any other accessory is disingenuous, only Circle Ring even comes close in how punishing it is to run into without being aware, and Circle Ring punishes the user for even using it (-9 WIL +9% increased damage taken). Not to mention one of the most prolific users of Ice, Verglas, has a hard counter to it (Winter's Bite).

Spirit Mirror, by sheer merit of its existence, means that anyone who wants to use a projectile against someone with Mysterious or Mask of Metal must use a projectile attack of some kind to test for the presence of Spirit Mirror if they even have the option of doing so. I'm not arguing against the existence of Spirit Mirror, I'm arguing against everyone who uses Mysterious or Mask of Metal benefiting from such status effects existing that now everyone needs to play against them on the assumption that they have this status effect until proven otherwise.

I'm unsure that comparing spirit mirror to one of the worst accessories available to the player and nothing else is doing you any favors. That said, there are numerous other options that provide 'hidden' buffs of the same or higher magnitude, some even without Mysterious/Mask of Metal. For example;

Snake-Faced Helm immunity to item-based stun inflictions;

Crystal Mirror 50% light retaliation;

Fang-Faced Shield/Mirror Enchant reflect damage;

Heron Feather silence reduction;

Lucky Amulet's critical damage reduction;

Protective Paper Charm's status resist;

Ring of the Knight providing guard without a shield.

All of these can be deciding factors in a fight, but either come hidden or can be hidden in the same way; some of what I listed is arguably far more impactful, and 'by sheer merit of their existence' sway the fight if you're unaware of them. If you're REALLY having trouble with a spirit mirror user, I'd suggest packing a purge/requinite or some form of multi-hit projectile to deal with it. 

Spirit Mirror is fine in its current state. If you Kadouha yourself, that's on you.
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#18
(12-30-2021, 11:28 PM)Collector Wrote: Spirit Mirror is fine in its current state. If you Kadouha yourself, that's on you.

Its also on you for falling to any of the balance issues currently in the game, so why even discuss balancing at that point?
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#19
Make Spirit Mirror only give you immunity to being a mirror squire of the mirror knight.
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#20
(12-31-2021, 12:49 AM)Sawrock Wrote: Make Spirit Mirror only give you immunity to being a mirror squire of the mirror knight.

Unironically add this as a hidden passive for spirit mirror.

Please. Pretty please.
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