Poll: Should there be an enforced roleplay ruleset for Korvara at the start?
You do not have permission to vote in this poll.
Yes. Rules that everyone adheres to can make the roleplay more focused.
82.76%
24 82.76%
No. I don't want any rules to limit how I play the game like I usually do already.
17.24%
5 17.24%
Total 29 vote(s) 100%
* You voted for this item. [Show Results]

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Korvara - Roleplay Ruleset
#21
(02-23-2022, 11:00 AM)lalchi Wrote: Why lock engineers ? Same for runemage. Engineers machines are made through focus energy. If Korvana have mage studying magic. They have people to progress technology.

Why lock kensei ? Yes in context of great six it is said it is a oniga tradition. But that just the thing. Korvana don't know about oniga. They don't care if the tradition already exist elsewhere in a place they don't know about.
In the end it's a class about mastering the fight art of swords.
And there's so much more than just katanas that demands a great mastery.
Rapier, sabre, longsword, and more...
I don't see why they should wait to discover oniga to unlock that "chakra" on their brain to use swords better.

This is the same for Boxer.
This is the same for monks.
This is the same for black knights. (black winds is just void. The rest is big weapon and armor. Seriously.)
I'm just going to be responding to what I quoted above and leave the rest of the work to all of you.

So, the problem with all of these is that they'd be a walking contradiction with how Korvara having a zero interaction with the Great Six. Engineer - as the class presents themselves - feels very Karaten-y and that's where all their stuff originates, pretty much. How did all the robots and turrets come to Korvara? Magic may come from many sorts of places, but you don't suddenly progress to having all of that cool stuff out of nowhere. And Korvara lives in a - for the lack of a better word - different 'world'. It's very hard to have a picture of floating medical bots tending to your needs when you came from a place that has no concept of these things. Invocation and all of that Evoker stuff, maybe - but robots?

On the matter of Kensei, yes. It's a class about mastering the art of swordfighting, except with an emphasis on katana - it's literally the theme. I don't think rapiers, sabres, and what have you - needs you to have a promotion class or anything to use them. There's a reason that despite many swords sharing similarities with katana, you're hard-pressed to find them used the way that those guys in Oniga do. Sword fighting is a very diverse thing and people are going to fight with swords their own way. 

Same thing with Boxers, honestly - it's a Bellaux thing. You can punch people to kingdom come and whatnot. but where did the Geist Schritting come from? I can somewhat see how Monks could develop in Korvara, maybe they'll have a different name for Ki? I can't say the same with Black Knights, using the black wind requires training sessions that you'd have nowhere else other than a wandering black knight kind enough to teach them. The big weapon and armor is a big part of them, yes - but the black wind is the reason why they're called the "Black Knights".

I'm sorry if I sound like a purist, but I have no idea how to explain all of these if I were to see them when Korvara drops other than that they probably come from the Great Six - which is unlikely. I can see how other classes that has no specific origin and more open-ended explanation (i.e: Aquamancer, Tactician, etc) could work in Korvara, but the rest is just going to break immersion.
[-] The following 2 users Like Hiazro's post:
  • lalchi, Reikou
Reply
#22
(02-23-2022, 12:19 PM)Hiazro Wrote: So, the problem with all of these is that they'd be a walking contradiction with how Korvara having a zero interaction with the Great Six. Engineer - as the class presents themselves - feels very Karaten-y and that's where all their stuff originates, pretty much. How did all the robots and turrets come to Korvara? Magic may come from many sorts of places, but you don't suddenly progress to having all of that cool stuff out of nowhere. And Korvara lives in a - for the lack of a better word - different 'world'. It's very hard to have a picture of floating medical bots tending to your needs when you came from a place that has no concept of these things. Invocation and all of that Evoker stuff, maybe - but robots?

It wouldn't come out of nowhere. It would come from years of works and studying the focus to make progress on technology.

Eventually they would have **made up** those robots.

That's what Karaten did. They had no one previous of them having such technology. They had to made it up. To create it. It didn't came out of nowhere for Karaten as well, it came from their work.

Korvara doesn't know anything about the great six but that doesn't stop them to progress as well. Espcially when the website for Korvara state that they barely have anything late on their knowledge and development 

[Image: unknown.png]

Quote:On the matter of Kensei, yes. It's a class about mastering the art of swordfighting, except with an emphasis on katana - it's literally the theme. I don't think rapiers, sabres, and what have you - needs you to have a promotion class or anything to use them. There's a reason that despite many swords sharing similarities with katana, you're hard-pressed to find them used the way that those guys in Oniga do. Sword fighting is a very diverse thing and people are going to fight with swords their own way. 

While i do agree it is mainly thought for Katana lore wise.
We need to realize that there aren't much class going for the sake of other swordfighting style.
Demon hunter being more of a crazy dante wannabe style
And black knight being large weapon, hit hard, take hard. 
(other option would be ghost, but that's arguable) 

as for the rest, it is the same as engineer. 
Oniga eventually had to came out with this. Creating it themselves with no priors civilisation having such style. 

Korvara don't know the great six, but they don't have to wait for any people coming from a land they don't know about to come out with style close to the kensei. 

Then it comes to the same for boxer, black knight, monk, etc...

The origins of such style had to be created and discovered at some point without priors civilisation to knew about it before. 

If people in the great six were able to come up with those and make it a thing, then the chance of happening in Korvana are equal. 


IT'S JUST LIKE THE RACES AND SO ONE POINT I CAN AGREE WITH


Quote:Korvara lives in a - for the lack of a better word - different 'world'.


It's totally true. 

Korvara has no idea of the great six.
They don't belives in the same gods.

But the rule of the world stay the same.
Souls goes to Lazarus, either they believe or not of Lazarus.
Focus energy is still around and emitted by living forms.
There's still lava unfer the grounds
There's still water forming the oceans.

They eventually live on the same "laws" of the world of the great six.

Now, i know that isn't what you meant.

But, here the thing.
People dying, lava, ocean, focus.
Those are all matters which has a lore attached to them discovered by research and beliefs made by the people of the great six.

Those lore attached to those concept. Are going to be different in Korvana.

There's NO WAY that Korvana, discovering lava, will say "Ah yes it's from Nayrif." 
They don't know who Nayrif is.
They going to be more likely make a more scientific approach on explaining presence of lava if they don't believe in any gods. (we don't know that yet tho'. We just know they don't know of the great six gods and certainly not the gods grave.) 

When there will be a redtail walking on Korvana. 
They won't be saying "It's a race deity of the golden thief". Just as Nairyf, they don't know who is that golden thief.
They will have an another approach and beliefs on why redtails is a thing. 

and so it comes to the same for classes.

Every lore you have learn so far. Would be the gods, the classes, the races and different aspect of the world.
Needs to be discarded. Cause Korvana has no idea of all of this.
But that doesn't stop them to come up with class similar to those of the great six.

The only thing changing, is the lore behind

In the great six context. Black knight use the black wind to help themself fight. Using those power to protect their people. They are seen as chevalresque and with honor. Even if they can be scary. 

In Korvana context. It will be different.
(Of course am not dev. And i don't participate to the progress of the update. So i'm mostly theorizing.)

The black wind may be seen as CURSED. Rare people use it cause it is hated by Korvana's people. Making it illegal to use it. And so the only people using are people who wished to be stronger even if it would be using taboo art. 
It is scary and forbidden, not neccesseraly because it is life threattening for yourself but simply because it is too strong and powerfull to be reasonably used.

All this, without having any idea what the black knight are.

Quote: maybe they'll have a different name for Ki

And yeah. They could totally have a different name for Ki.

Because in Korvana, Monk class wouldn't be linked to the great six lore anymore. 
It would be link to Korvana lore. 

Engineer should have its own Korvana lore.
Kensei should have its own Koravana lore.
Runemage should have their own Korvana lore. 

etc... etc...
[-] The following 3 users Like lalchi's post:
  • Anhita, Fern, Shadbase
Reply
#23
Thats not how races work. Its not a "Believe". Its literally a God looking at a human and being like "You know what? I think you look better with my horns!"-> Zerans are created.
Man you human and your silly sicknesses, have some slit eyes and golden blood so you stop being puny little sickbags!->Glykins are created.
Wyverntouched are litterally the product of poison dragons that thought "Man, those humans are kinda cute!" and bedded them. (Though I guess that could happen in Korvara too).
Nagas were created by snakeman in Argentyle, in a strange rape ritual.

This goes for almost every race in the game. Its not simple Religion and believe and people trying to explain shit. Its a fact. And these facts happened in Sigroganas great six. Your example of people trying to explain it differently would only occur if people from Sigrogana came there. They would NOT be born there.
Unless something fundamentally is rectonned from the Lore or it turns out Sigrogana and the Gods were full of shit all this time? It makes no logical sense for most of these races to be there.

There are a couple that make sense though, elves, Liches, Humans of course. Homunculi and a couple more.

So no your argumentation seems based around "They just think its something else", but the lore has it very clearly established that they CAN NOT come from somewehre else as its NOT religion. Literal children blessed by gods that then spread over Sigrogana from there.

In a sense even magic could work differently there, Mercala is based her power in the faith in HER specifically.(Egocentric Loli bitch that she is! Sue me Mavis!) So even if they live by the same rules, and they can somewhat harness that focus in the world, it would be fundamentally less powerful than the magic of Lispolians priests that work hand in hand wit her. So I am curious how exactly dev wants to go with that. He kinda wrote himself in a corner there, if he wants that all to be there as well.

though these are lore questions, and I suggest making a Topic about it yourself to get it expalined in more detail. This here is more about general rules that we want to abide by OOCly I think.
[-] The following 4 users Like Shujin's post:
  • HaTeD, lalchi, Reikou, Shadbase
Reply
#24
So far some of the stuff people have said in here are still to be decided and waiting to be answered by Dev in the future. I imagine we'll have more to discuss when it Korvara is nearer.

As for some of the OOC grinding mentioned, Dev has previously mentioned in the Discord that legend extending might not be available at the start. Considering the current way to even start to LE is locked to an NPC in Sigrogana.

As much as I want to be optimistic for some of you who believe that the community will sort out everything organically and peacefully on their own regarding class combinations and races, I'm inclined to respectfully disagree to that view that won't be the case without something like clear-rules to prevent or at least manage it to some extent.

The class balancing talks also aren't really something I would imagine could be '''fixed''' to be included in a package as Korvara releases (Maybe in the future after). Although its clear that the veteran players of the game clearly know what builds are the most effective currently, making them very attractive to start beelining towards in Korvara.
[Image: tenor.gif]
[-] The following 3 users Like K Peculier's post:
  • lalchi, Shujin, Snake
Reply
#25
(02-23-2022, 02:06 PM)lalchi Wrote:  -snip-


I actually agree with a majority of this, I think the addition of Korvaran specific lore for the classes is generally a good idea, and should be fleshed out upon its release, even if its not prepared for said release, as a lot of necessary things will be primarily lore and slight balance tweaks.

Examples like Verglas, Black Knight and Firebird all would need explaining somehow.
[Image: ZwZQKR6.png]
[-] The following 3 users Like Autumn's post:
  • FaeLenx, lalchi, Shadbase
Reply
#26
The idea that none of these things could exist has three problems.

1. Anything could exist in this new world due to the power of narrative, even if they were just reskinned or otherwise explained in some specific way. The impact it would have on the grander narrative is exciting and anyone that feels that the current lore is sacred probably knows at most a quarter of the broader details at best.

2. The idea that this new place would not be able to innovate and invent every same fighting style on their own terms is not supported by the one document we have that compares the two different areas' societal and technological progression. Verglas is literally just 'kicks but with cold' and engineer is literally just 'magic but put it in a hard thing and make the magic stay there.' They're not tied to the old lore in any super restrictive way.

3. It'd be really, really boring. This is the biggest reason why I don't understand why people keep insisting that we axe classes and put up applications for half of what's left. This game is easily five years too late to become Eternia and this new map and new content is coming out far too early to have an entire roster of new classes and races to rival the old to keep builds diverse and interesting. Unless Dev has been working on this forever and getting new art assets for bear girls and other off brand monster girls after we've exhausted literally every set of attractive animal ears on Sigrogana content, people are basically asking for a world full of really mediocre humans but with slightly different horns than Zerans and Reapers.
[-] The following 4 users Like FaeLenx's post:
  • Fern, HaTeD, Pyro, Shadbase
Reply
#27
(02-23-2022, 11:20 PM)FaeLenx Wrote: The idea that none of these things could exist has three problems.

1. Anything could exist in this new world due to the power of narrative, even if they were just reskinned or otherwise explained in some specific way. The impact it would have on the grander narrative is exciting and anyone that feels that the current lore is sacred probably knows at most a quarter of the broader details at best.

2. The idea that this new place would not be able to innovate and invent every same fighting style on their own terms is not supported by the one document we have that compares the two different areas' societal and technological progression. Verglas is literally just 'kicks but with cold' and engineer is literally just 'magic but put it in a hard thing and make the magic stay there.' They're not tied to the old lore in any super restrictive way.

3. It'd be really, really boring. This is the biggest reason why I don't understand why people keep insisting that we axe classes and put up applications for half of what's left. This game is easily five years too late to become Eternia and this new map and new content is coming out far too early to have an entire roster of new classes and races to rival the old to keep builds diverse and interesting. Unless Dev has been working on this forever and getting new art assets for bear girls and other off brand monster girls after we've exhausted literally every set of attractive animal ears on Sigrogana content, people are basically asking for a world full of really mediocre humans but with slightly different horns than Zerans and Reapers.


This more or less captures my response to things. People want things axed because they want fake exclusivity, they want apps to gatekeep and to treat Korvara like it's not going to be an elaborate eventhouse that punishes people that don't nolife the grind. 


Combative post, sure. But the arguements of 'But muh lore' against usage of pre-existing game assets just says people want to treat Korvara like it's Sigrogana Legend 3: Now with even less content as opposed to the  EXPANSION PACK Dev himself has marked it as. And it fills me with dread for its outcome.
[-] The following 3 users Like Kazzy's post:
  • HaTeD, Shadbase, Shujin
Reply
#28
I do believe a vast majority of the "classes/shouldn't that shouldn't exist" can exist simply by being descended from those who arrived when the island was still chartered on maps. And those that can't, like classes such as Firebird, can be flavored in a different manner. Dev has given us /something/ of a timeframe by barring Zerans.

Also, handwaving exists for a reason. Buckle up your pants and stop worrying that Jimmy Glykin Kensei is going to ruin your immersion. As much as I would like to walk up to Dev and say "explain this, this, and this about Korvara", we're still sitting in the dark and we don't need to get in a twist regarding lore. In the end, people are just trying to have fun, which takes importance over trivial things like why certain classes shouldn't exist.

For a game that lacks diversity due to its combat system, we shouldn't trim it even more.
[-] The following 3 users Like Pyro's post:
  • Fern, HaTeD, Hiazro
Reply
#29
I believe with enough effort, any class can exist on the other continent, as in the past freeform has been allowed for most classes so far, barring very few exceptions such as Priest or Summoners you're kinda able to just vaguely say something along the lines of "Oh I am an ice mage" "Oh I'm just good with a sword" "My character's pretty bulky." etc. and that won't stop obviously.

Some classes have cool lores behind them too that I perfectly understand as guidelines for said characters, such as positions or titles like Black Knight or Verglas, not that they're exclusive to how they fight or hone their craft, but just that they have those positions currently. So it'd be interesting to see if any of the classes made it over somehow, like Verglas being a part of a remote snowy area, or black knights being some sort of elite Geladyne force etc.

Ultimately it won't be that big of a deal either though and I certainly won't be losing sleep over having to just vaguely describe my own character's fighting style somewhere.
[Image: ZwZQKR6.png]
[-] The following 1 user Likes Autumn's post:
  • HaTeD
Reply
#30
My problem with them having summoner is the youkai. If they get summoner they should have their own exclusive collection of youkai to summon.
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)
Sigrogana Legend 2 Discord