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Deploy Talis and Frozen Fear
#17
(03-29-2022, 06:41 AM)Poruku Wrote: Making them attackable would not be much of a nerf. Destroyable objects generally cost 6 momentum to remove for a melee character, and 3 for a ranged attacker. Perhaps if destroying the gem weakened the user meaningfully then it would make sense.

I still believe the only way to actually nerf these things would be to target the range or the momentum cost. Or at least place a significant drawback to increasing range so much and so easily.

I get that a nerf sounds rough when you consider what would be lost, comparing it to the current version. But keep in mind gem staves are leagues beyond all other options in terms of power, both in pvp and pve. It's important to compare it to other weapons, not just itself. 1m for a 5 range increase is just way too good. Yes resists can mess with you but that's true for anything that costs 1m, it's still a free bonus action in most cases.

Yes the staves don't benefit from spellbook, but they get other benefits in exchange such as two-hand and weapon parts. As for the parries, I believe those only happen in melee range(?).

Edit: Lastly I'd like to argue 3m would not render these staves unusable, I know I would still use them. They would become an artillery tool, allowing you to sit back and improve your range, casting spells safely without moving closer to the fray yourself. Essentially making them more suited to use when making a tactical position, especially in events and team battles. It would no longer be a spammable skill you just use all the time, you would need to carefully place it to cover the area you want. Just because you wouldn't use it every turn would not make it useless. It would fit the specific but still powerful niche of the artillery setup casting tool. It would obviously be less common in 1v1 pvp, but I think that's honestly warranted and just makes sense: it's an artillery tool. It makes sense to make it more suited to backliners and less versatile

Charge is 1 momentum and can be used every turn to increase range of move by 3 so long as you end within 3 range of an enemy mob
Shukuchi is 1 momentum and can be used every turn to increase move and some MA skills by range increase.
Engineer Jetpack is 1m for 6 range flat movement, some CD
Mass is a 1m tool that increases range of curate stuff by more than a significant amount. 5 range diamond I believe? Dear god, literally.
longdraw is 1m at max rank, range increase is 4, gust arrow is another 5 range. 9 range, 1 or no momentum requirement.

My point is youre taking the whole 'spammable unfair utility modifier argument' a bit far without comparing it to other forms in the game. Talis is 1 momentum, 5 range and locked to that domain type. 3 momentum makes this effect moot, and I state this in another way now; If god forbid you get gap closed on and you need to make distance and still be any form of effect, you need to move and readjust to attack. if you blink? thats 8 tiles. charge and shukuchi can cover that with added bonus and momentum efficiency, ranger might not even need to move, woe heaven kick be upon thee. 3 momentum in order to move the talis because you need to readjust from an unfavorable position just gives your opponent the momentum economy that they dont have to act on to take from you because they would be moving from the talis and gap closing you anyway. Talis has blind spots, as well as again, can only be used with spells of it's domain. There are much better ways to combat it in game with other mechanics, but instead we are here discussing a theoretical permanent change for it.

Now you mention the staffs are better than tomes? I can agree, but tomes themselves are outdated and have always been at a loss in certain stats compared to martial weaponry. I've discussed attempts to give tomes weapon parts especially in this hit rate meta because they lack so much. Whatever the case, talis isn't the issue with the staffs in my opinion and instead believe tomes need a rework. this 'bonus action' you mention has no effect on you when used itself. Only the spells cast through it are to be determined. Rough is an understatement if its nerfed from it's current state. It simply will not be used and will enjoy it's time in the closet with screamer tome, elemental swap genres, etc.

Now instead of talis being used, you get fortunite staffs being used for free. What then? Morganite staffs? No, the staffs arent in a league of their own. It comes down to preference between the tomes and staffs. Many tomes simply have much better scaling for power and their domain amplification. Why arent they used? Because their hit rate sucks and that's what we should fix first.
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Messages In This Thread
Deploy Talis and Frozen Fear - by Poruku - 03-23-2022, 12:47 AM
RE: Deploy Talis and Frozen Fear - by sadbot - 03-23-2022, 07:24 AM
RE: Deploy Talis and Frozen Fear - by HaTeD - 03-23-2022, 07:50 AM
RE: Deploy Talis and Frozen Fear - by Poruku - 03-23-2022, 05:23 PM
RE: Deploy Talis and Frozen Fear - by WaifuApple - 03-23-2022, 07:28 PM
RE: Deploy Talis and Frozen Fear - by Poruku - 03-23-2022, 08:02 PM
RE: Deploy Talis and Frozen Fear - by Autumn - 03-23-2022, 08:37 PM
RE: Deploy Talis and Frozen Fear - by Poruku - 03-23-2022, 09:24 PM
RE: Deploy Talis and Frozen Fear - by WaifuApple - 03-23-2022, 10:16 PM
RE: Deploy Talis and Frozen Fear - by Poruku - 03-23-2022, 10:36 PM
RE: Deploy Talis and Frozen Fear - by HaTeD - 03-24-2022, 12:12 AM
RE: Deploy Talis and Frozen Fear - by Snake - 03-25-2022, 02:51 PM
RE: Deploy Talis and Frozen Fear - by sadbot - 03-26-2022, 01:44 PM
RE: Deploy Talis and Frozen Fear - by Autumn - 03-26-2022, 05:35 PM
RE: Deploy Talis and Frozen Fear - by Poruku - 03-29-2022, 06:41 AM
RE: Deploy Talis and Frozen Fear - by HaTeD - 03-29-2022, 07:48 AM
RE: Deploy Talis and Frozen Fear - by Poruku - 03-29-2022, 02:20 PM
RE: Deploy Talis and Frozen Fear - by Snake - 03-29-2022, 02:54 PM
RE: Deploy Talis and Frozen Fear - by HaTeD - 03-29-2022, 03:24 PM
RE: Deploy Talis and Frozen Fear - by Snake - 03-29-2022, 09:45 PM

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