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Conflict and GM Intervention
I don't really want to touch the origin of this thread in an excessive manner, mainly because I understand how difficult it is to make a convincing and compelling narrative, while also trying to take into account people's emotions on events. Though there have been a number of statements, admittance and the like prior to my posting here, I do think that the GMs have attempted to be as fair and light handed as they could, being placed in a situation which was uncomfortable, no matter the approach.

The main reason I'm posting right now, is to address the traps around Fairview, being the person who Magaisendo'd a small portion of them away. If I remember my chain of events correctly, a character had just fallen into another section of said traps, maybe after the information of their detail was posted in looc, a post I didn't catch, though ran with the idea of them being pitfalls, after the fall.

It wasn't an attempt to god mod, I kept said removal to quite literally the traps in my direct proximity, as I don't believe, even as a geomancer, it would be reasonable to be able to pin point all those nearby and the main intent was for ic purposes of "The evidence of traps are right here and you say you didn't know anyone was coming?"

Really this whole event has been a bit of a mess for a number of reason and I would hope that it can be taken as a learning experience, 'growing pains', from a new way of handling the narrative. I'm sure that as a result of all of the issue brought up here, weaknesses in the process have been identified and will be adapted to better suit conflict in the future.

That is provided none of us push our head into the sand about things.
[-] The following 5 users Like Imotepchief's post:
  • caliaca, Dezark, lordpidey, Maksimum_Fire, Snake
As someone who has been in Fairview during the time, when someone showed up to inform them right before the attack happend that something is going on ala
"Meiauqar told their people to stay inside."

People were basically just waiting. Someone just walked out during that time and due to how traps are...Well laid in 20 seconds in game, they suddenly had a defense, that half the people of Fairview weren't even aware off. the only IC I read about it was Yuri telling Sofia to make a Makeshift wall for defense.

So this kinda goes more into the "Metagame" category, and how logical it is to suddenly have 50 traps placed and 120 pit dug out, while the people in Fairview barely even managed to say two lines. From 'defenders' side, I thought that was nonesense too, but what can you do?
[-] The following 1 user Likes Shujin's post:
  • HaTeD
So, I am actually EXTREMELY specced into placing traps.

I have the traits to dig faster maxed out. I have a shovel made out of the material that lets you dig the fastest. I have toolmaking (the tradeskill to actually make traps) maxed out.

In a world where people can cause earthquakes by chanting a few words, is it REALLY that out there that someone can place 8 pit traps super fast?
[-] The following 2 users Like lordpidey's post:
  • Imotepchief, Snake
Just the fact how a single Magaisendo got rid of 90% of that investment makes this fair and weep-worthy.
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(10-24-2022, 01:10 AM)Snake Wrote: Just the fact how a single Magaisendo got rid of 90% of that investment makes this fair and weep-worthy.
Although, it didn't.
As I stated earlier, as the person who did the Magaisendo, removing the traps in my character's immediate vacinity, i.e. 3 traps out of I don't know how many were present, done so as a means of stating "Look, you managed to prepare, you know this was coming".

An argument had been made icly that Fairview had no prior knowledge that anything was happening and that's why children were still present. The traps being present proved counter to this and were only interacted with after an looc message informed us what the traps were and then another character fell in to one, at which point Magaisendo was used, which triggered the traps in the direct local area.

There were still plenty of traps up regardless to the use of one Magaisendo.

I mean, I get the point you're making, but let's not state things inaccurately.
Hey guys, Yuri here. I know it's frustrating just reading the really long excuses of the admins about everything when they could easily just post logs and screenshots, explain it, and just make everyone's day easier. This already caused a huge issue with everything that happened with Henrik, so I'm just going to do this.

The reason why things went as they did boils down to a few things, the logs are mostly self-explanatory however, so I'll be leaving most of the explaining to that. But really it just came down to ooc. Mother and I were never against accepting consequences of our actions, rather, we just wanted to actually have a proper fun IC moment where it could be fun for everyone instead of an Eternia ganking IC-lock moment where no one on the opposing side who was actually involved with the conflict first-hand was actually involved in fighting or the conflict beyond just throwing insults.

First up, hidden channel:

Have fun reading all 100 pages of that.

Second up, the whole debacle where someone accused Mother and I of leaving Fairview when we didn't because... Reasons, and Dev decided to believe them because... Reasons.

Anyone feel free to include more context to the above with screenshots or logs! ^

And finally, (mainly) looc logs for everything that happened directly after the first day of the siege:

I just want everyone to be filled in on what actually happened and to have info to make a proper decision for yourself instead of trying to snip and snap together a conclusion based on what people say or what the admins choose to let be known. Enjoy!

If you want a more proper explanation, more logs for anything, or just to ask me my personal opinion, just DM me, I'm still in the discord even though I pretty much quit at this point.

Additionally: While I won't say I don't have issues with how things are run and handled such as the fact that no solid answers are ever given, or there being clear bias in certain areas, I'm not doing this to attack or bash anyone, nor to play to the public eye like others most definitely will. I just wish for everyone to be able to make a proper conclusion of their own with all the facts present in front of them. At the very least, I hope they can try to understand both sides rather than attacking or ridiculing one in specific, as all that does is continue the cycle that is very clearly an issue in this community.
[-] The following 1 user Likes Kyratio's post:
  • HaTeD
I will just say after taking some time to read a fair bit of those logs from the 'hidden channel', I have a few thoughts on the matter.

There seems to be a disconnect between how ic actions led up to the siege and the idea that a country wouldn't leverage it's resources to reaquire what was stolen from it, doesn't track.

I really don't see how you can claim that the motivations present were ooc from Meiaquar's position, considering there was a chain of ic that brought about these events, the logs read very much like increasing notes of stress on an ooc level, simply due to an intent to bolster position above station for some effected parties, especially after Fairview lost many of the people who had initally backed them.

There are even roundabout threats stated specifically from one that is at the center of all this, that are an obvious attempt to sway the situation in the favor of Fairview, with the idea that people will leave if such doesn't occur.

I see the GMs and Dev working hard to try and keep the conflict engaging, yet hitting wall after wall, especially around the stalemate condition of the first battle. A battle that lasted multiple hours quite simply because those two groups were so evenly matched.

I do understand the intent to have fun, that is, after all, why we all play games, but unfortunately sometimes the story dips into uncomfortable places and especially in a multiplayer roleplay experience, often people don't get what they want. Plans get ruined, ic takes strange directions, people get upset, it's inevitable, but personally, I'm a little irked that it seems like whenever anything of any semblence of importance for Korvara as a whole happens, losing parties end up pointing at the GMs and calling foul play.

That 'hidden channel' discussion alone shows just how much effort the GMs have been putting in to try and make things enjoyable, alongside the amount of stress they endure to try to accomodate.

It really shows that some people arguing here haven't been on the other end of dealing with these kinds of situations.
[-] The following 11 users Like Imotepchief's post:
  • Anhita, Ardratz, Balthie, Dezark, Dystopia, Fern, Moku203, NaitoPsych, TorientalVortX, Treantfence, WaifuApple
Having read further I am agreed that the GMs and Dev did what they could to preserve and mediate matters, and if they were truly against you all I believe that it wouldn't have gotten this far, nor ended with even further leniency being shown on their part.

The GMs were dealt and uncomfortable, unfair hand - one admittedly harshened by a lack of hashed out rulesets for conflicts on a large scale, but the room given to prepare for what may have been kept a secret from them for far too long for them to be prepared with a list of rules, considering how Korvara was announced - it wasn't much, and in that situation I cannot really blame them for things like this.

It's a shame that it's come to this again, with bans and people leaving, or threatening to do so, but the consequences of one's actions will always exist, and the reality of the situation is that the GMs did everything they could to make a situation that shouldn't have been fair... more fair. And for that, all they really got was it thrown back in their faces, which isn't really right, nor is it fair.

A week ban for all of this is minor, all things considered - especially since plans were to take a break or quit anyhow, which should have seen the players relatively unaffected if it were the truth and not an attempt to cause guilt.

I hope the people angered or upset by the situation can find themselves some closure and move on, really.
[Image: 400px-Nihilus%2C_the_Abyssal_Flame.gif]
Ending 145: Disappointed in Humanity
[-] The following 10 users Like WaifuApple's post:
  • Anhita, Ardratz, Balthie, Dezark, Dystopia, Fern, Imotepchief, Moku203, TorientalVortX, Treantfence
After giving things a read over and catching up, I do have to agree with Imotep and Apple on this point. GMs and Dev did alot and attempted their best to keep things preserved and attempted alot to help talk things out and discuss matters, and while I don't agree with certain things from either side; I can say that the clear distinction between what went from just a discussion to just more from that.

I understand being unhappy with all of this given things in that regard, and I would be the same if I were in that position; and for that all I can say is that I hope things get better soon.

I rather enjoy the memories I make with everyone even if there headbutting on occasion and to follow appo word..

I hope those angered or upset by the situation can find themselves some closure and move on, and find some happiness in something in the future.
[-] The following 1 user Likes Dezark's post:
  • Fern
While I appreciate posting things for supposed clarity, the logs are edited. For anyone who isn't aware, there are things absolutely cut out of the posted log of the hidden channel.

If the attempt was to self-exonerate, the end result is the opposite. It just makes the GMs look like beyond-saints, unnatural and inhuman creatures of patience that is wildly unwarranted.

If someone is willing to quit because they didn't get their way, no matter how bizarre or impossible the thing they wanted is, they likely weren't a good fit for SL2 to start with. Characters die, plot lines are scuffed, and people get screwed over because of things beyond their control. That's on the Great Six, no less, where things are far, far more malleable and 'open' and far easier to retcon and change. Korvara is always IC, and IC actions have consequences. A lot of people are willing to accept that things they do that make RP sense will sometimes bite them in the ass. Sometimes enough to ruin playing the character, or get them killed. If you aren't... You shouldn't try to make sweeping, far-reaching, massive action.

Let alone when your point of view is... 'I'll always win, and I'll always get my way, and anything that says otherwise is people out to get me'.

'I'll quit' becomes a pointless bit of a threat when, even after getting a beyond-unrealistic amount of enforced leniency, you quit anyway.

I only hope the rest of the players who were involved in Fairview can move on and continue playing, without being used as emotional manipulation material. That level of disrespect is unfathomable.

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