[Poruku]

Keep spirits powerful. Heck, make them stronger. But also make the counters stronger B) then make it even more of a pain to get your spirits back. Make it a big deal IC and OOC so it's a heavy choice. And of course, make spiritual sensitivity show who has spirits when you open the profile.

[renowner]

No mechanic should be able to remove an entire month of constant grinding unless we're also going to remove the danger level rules and allow every single person to be danger level 4.

Which is what removing black spirits would do to people.
Getting the white spirits you want isn't much of a chore at all.
Getting the correct black spirits?
Well, you get constant injuries, and the racial pool is completely flooded with useless races including boss ones like super shark and mutated jammer. I've been trying for almost 4 weeks now and still don't even have the five black spirits I want. And have gone through at least fourty medical gauze.

This trait is at its core; a terrible idea for the current game of SL2 which already innately dissalows permanent mechanical consequences to the people unwilling. And to the people who are willing, you can just rp it, and have them remove their spirits through roleplay and their own actions, which won't cause bad feels to pretty much everyone else and give an unnecessary burden to people who don't accept danger levels and are using black spirits.

I see genuinely no reason whatsoever why this should even be considered. If you want to punish people using spirits, use holy weapons. Holy weapons are cracked. Excorsise them rply. If they don't accept your serious fight and serious consequences, then well. That's SL2 for you.

[Pyro]

give the aperaturus a health boost for exorcising the spirits from a host

[Lolzytripd]

Keep spirits powerful. Heck, make them stronger. But also make the counters stronger B) then make it even more of a pain to get your spirits back. Make it a big deal IC and OOC so it's a heavy choice. And of course, make spiritual sensitivity show who has spirits when you open the profile.

If we need to nerf white spirits or buff em In propose this

no limit to stacking multiple on a skill, but each spirit puts a 2 round, stacking cool down, on the skill, 5 spirits = 10 round cd

[JamOfBoy]

-all of this-

you should probably discuss the mechanics and inconvenience of gaining and losing spirits in balance fu or another suggestion post if you feel so strongly about a mechanic this proposed trait does not change

[renowner]

Its relevant to this one, so no.

[Shadbase]

I'm sure if there are any other logical reasons why not to do this beyond "the grind would be so hard!" you have it would be rather helpful to Jam! Because at this point you've sort-of created this negative bubble of being stubborn and not really adding anything beyond complaining, not to sound purposefully rude, and that's not the point of Suggestion threads.
"This is hard to get so it's not allowed to be countered to this level" is an ice-cold take.

I've given it some thought myself, and even as a supporter I could understand why someone who rides on mostly PVP meta on their spirits would be quite peeved about it, but I believe there are good suggestions that could be done otherwise, but rather a good section of people have just been dragging the thought, which is really sad.

For clarity, here are what others have suggested:

(Balance) (Lolzy) When a spirit adds another point unto a skill, it increases that skill's cooldown by 2.
(Balance) (Shujin) +3 hit per White Spirit on target, +3 crit per Black Spirit on target
(Trait) (Kunai / Pyro) Soul Guide - If you defeat an enemy who is a Ghost, Possessed or Undead, you will reap some of their essence and restore HP/FP equal to Character LV * X (2 + 1 per 1 Spirit).

And that's it. Those're the actual suggestions from those who've disagreed with the trait, and 2/3 are actually just Balance-Fu fodder.

Nobody has been saying at all that the grind for spirits is easy. I use spirits for RP purposes, and I can see exactly how hard they are to get - especially in Korvara, where I barely see any. There are two things that they have been saying:

1) Spirits have absolutely no actual consequences beyond a slight debuff if someone is using a Holy weapon, which is often times a weapon in someone's item belt than something actually being used. Beyond that, you are getting a buff where the only cost is the patience to get them, and then once you're set you have what are basically permanent buffs.

2) There is no real functional reason to play a Reaper or Apertaurus. Reaper especially, since at least Apertaurus have their little hoovsies. Everything a Reaper can do every other race can do better. We have an actual item in-game that even gives you their racial active ability now too.

The point here is effectively "yes, Reapers/Apertaurus have no real abilities that make them a threat and spirit users are basically able to get away with using spirits mechanically for free, here's a thought that would put some risk into that and create RP opportunities". Jam isn't out to get your meta PVP build.

The best criticism against the trait is just that it would make the Amalgama trait, and dog collars, effectively useless - a race specific trait, and an accessory slot you have to sacrifice for. I think that yes, these things should be immune to Jam's initially proposed trait, because it entirely invalidates those things that're made to keep you from losing those. And then look! You have a viable way to keep your little darling spirits against a Reaper/Apertaurus, just swap one of your accessories. It's not really against the rules - just kinda a "are you for real" moment, just roleplay slapping on your collar.
And again, I mentioned it before and I could understand if it would get lost, but it's a viable option as well to simply not get into a PVP fight with a Reaper/Apertaurus. Nobody can force you into PVP, it's actually against the rules - and it's exactly what a few people have been asking for. "Just RP it, you can ICly release your spirits and not mechanically do it". A trait like Jam is suggesting is specifically a punish for people who solve all of their problems through PVP and cannot RP their way out of it.

If anything, Reaper/Apertaurus deserve a trait that actually makes them threatening against spirit-users, because it's practically exactly what they come up from Lazarus to combat most of the time. People who take spirits and use them for their own gain instead of letting them pass on. Even if it's not what Jam suggested to a T, Jam is on the right track of trying to make spirit use something that actually comes with a real risk that people could run into, as well as making an actual reason to play a Reaper/Apertaurus and have something to show for it other than purely IC flavor. Because it's very clear that Soul Guide + Ghost Killer/Scripture is not making anybody consider it.

[caliaca]

Ftr I did add a suggestion of making it a damage buff but this was dumb.

Now I support Pyros

If if didn't ignore collars and Amalgama this trait would actually be a do nothing trail. That was kind of the point.

[renowner]

Reaper and Aspertaurus get to make spears and axes casting tools which was extremely strong. Less so now that Arcanic comes out. And Aspertauren have really really good base strength.
I'm against things that ignore danger level and also inflict defeat penalties on people.
If people want reaper and Aspertaurus to have something else, this is certainly not the way to do it. You can already rp this sort of thing. This only works in serious pvp and only exists to do something you could already do in roleplay, or to just piss people off.