[Sawrock]

Backstabbing isn't critically hitting. Critical hits represent that you've struck someone in a more-fatal-than-normal spot (whacking someone on the head with a hammer, stabbing someone in the middle of the chest with a dagger, etc). Of course, since the game has an anime theme, normally fatal blows can be less fatal than reality would dictate. I'm fine with the critical evade only working fully for heavy armor, with penalties for light armor, etc.

[Soapy]

You're doing the thing Dev does. Y'know, the one where he says something vaguely related to the topic, without actually responding to the post.

[MegaBlues]

[strike]Armor-class restrictions are nothing new to SL2. I'd say making it work at lower efficiency for non-heavy armor is a fine move.[/strike]

Reading back over the thread, I realize it got derailed somehow. It's not really about Negation being too widespread, it's about Negation being too strong for what it does.

Now that Defense gives Critical Evade, I could get behind Negation's effectiveness being reduced. Instead of how things were, where non-BKs got the crit-shaft and BKs somewhat evaded it, non-BKs can somewhat evade it, and BKs can be somewhat but not totally immune.

[Soapy]

I don't know if I missed an epidemic of unarmored BKs going around trashing everything, but I really don't see why that needs to be a thing? It's not even good.

The problem here isn't that BK isn't required to use armor in all circumstances. It's that Negation is too strong for an innate, regardless of any item requirements.

[Trexmaster]

I'd just like to point out it's way easier to stack critical than it is to stack crit evade.

I feel Negation as it is is fine, but if it needs a nerf, having it be based on armor would be the way to go.

No one is saying that BKs disregarding heavy armor are the issue, they're just trying to provide another approach that wouldn't be a straight up nerf to the class.

[Chaos]

Trexmaster » Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:18 pm[/url]"]I'd just like to point out it's way easier to stack critical than it is to stack crit evade.

Recent developments have made Critical Evade just as easy to stack. Before DEF/2 was added into the mix, yes, Critical had the advantage. Nowadays it's bluntly impossible to land a critical on anything that focuses on Critical Evade, unless you were literally built only with Critical activation in mind and don't mind doing some heavy gambling for your criticals. (Due to the stats and effects that boost Critical Evade, it also does not particularly tax the user to stack CE. Whereas Critical boosting requires some specific setups, and will narrow down the user's options)

That being said, lets put Negation down to +5 Critical Evade per rank. The plethora of stats available for Critical Evade (One of which is BK's biggest selling point) should ease out the number drop.

[Ranylyn]

I recently deleted a Crit Build I was playing since I needed the slot for another character.

At level 35, I had over 100% Crit against a level 60 BK. Granted, I was doing 0 damage thanks to the BK using Painproof, buuuut....

The isssue isn't crit evade. People just aren't stacking enough crit. Someone wearing a robe into batle will be far easier to crit than someone wearing heavy armor, because which makes it easier to strike the vitals? If the mobility reduction from armor was so detrimental to preventing deadly blows against you, it would never have been used IRL.

I'm all for a trial run of Chaos's idea of reducing Negation's effects, but I really do believe the issue is the build of the critter, not the BK.

[Neus]

I don't see the issue. Black Knights, as Negation might suggest, are designed to be difficult to critically hit. If you walk into a fight with one with good LUC and 5 SP in Negation and are relying on your stats and weapon stats, then yeah, you're going to have difficulty. I don't see the need to force an active component on Negation when you're not using any active component for your high crit rate. Not to mention that there are certain classes that can still pull off crits against 105 Crit Evade, namely any Archer using Bows, Void Assassins with Veil Off, Axe Berserkers, and so on.

Hope that was 'direct' enough of a response for you.