[Snake]

I like the attack range ideas.

[Chaos]

Lolzytripd » Mon May 16, 2016 7:07 am[/url]"]Okay back from the eternal void to post my opinion

instead of omfg nerfzzz, why not change the effective ranges of "rifles" and the rocket launcher in question

make The rocket inaccurate in ranges 1-5 and cause self damage if its aoe hits the shooter.

make snipers unable to target enemies within 5 range except point blank range with a penalty.

Buff shotguns, make their attack range a Cone that can hit multiple enemies.

This actually sounds like a better idea. I would have no issues with this going in, especially the 'rocket damages user if they're in the blast zone' part.

[Autumn]

I like the idea of giving variety to the single shot guns in that sense, only sort-of unrelated to the thread, but making excel snipers less effective in 1 range, making jackhammers do less damage on the outer edges of the circle, and shotguns shoot in a cone sounds like a fun idea, I can see that much at least.

[HaTeD]

I'd like to point out that gunners do not have a single auto-hit skill therefore must rely on the skill and luck stats. As for shotguns I can vouch that they can achieve the same hit rate as other guns. I must disagree with lolzytripd concerning both excel snipers and jack hammers. For the jackhammers its pretty hard to hit all of your targets and not be in the circle with them unless you have the long barrel attachment. If the jackhammer would be arranged as in lolzy's suggestion then it would be deserted and never used again. As for the excel snipers I'd say a closer target is an easier one. as for putting the long barrel on to be able to utilize these long ranges they just so happen to lose other areas of focus such as critical from the long barrel (-5%). Furthermore I really don't see the point of 'nerfing' guns because there are few items in game to build against it without having it being your entire concern.(Bellplate, spirit mirror,) And there are literal classes which reak havoc on gunners such as demon hunter(cobra/matador) and kensie(BULLET BARRIER)

[Rendar]

How to deal with Bellplate/SpiritMirror/Fang Shield

Use Matador yourself. Literally outmatador them.

Matador? LITERALLY USE AN ARCANE POTION (this doesn't apply to single shot guns because matador literally gets fucked by them)

Cobra? "Oh wow. It's almost like I can't walk behind them to shoot them in the back."

If the issue of "DON'T BLOW URSELF UP" becomes an issue with Jackhammer.. Know what you can do..? Not rely on a fucking rocket launcher to kill a single target. Or, you know. have it's circle decreased to be sear sized.

[Egil]

So mages can avoid hurting themselves with sear (literal swirl of burning air or w/e you RP it as) but a gunner absolutely has to RP a jackhammer as a rocket launcher that can hurt them?

Lmao.

[HaTeD]

Here's the thing, MG uses pure hit rate, why not just increase your evade? I believe the problem here is shell power, I guess people don't like being debuffed, but it sucks to suck and its the concept of the class. If its way of fighting through hit rate only is degraded then the whole concept is destroyed and turns into a class only gimmicks use. Rendar you forget to mention rage accumulation for matador (retaliate) and the fact that cobras turn around after being hit (there is also leporidae's turn to face before hit) and I'm sure they wont let you do it again (watches cobra walk to the edge of the map and put their back to it*) How about instead of posting half-truth arguements and being hasty to click reply you give it a little more time to think. I can give you a list of problems that need to be 'balanced' before we get to this one, because frankly, an MG isn't your first target in a fight.

[Autumn]

Jackhammer, like I said, would just be better with less damage at the outer ranges.

Also, 'building' evade doesn't even work, MG uses no autohits you're right, but with focused mind, archer passives and magnet shell, MGs will almost always have 100% hit rate nowadays, but that's for another thread, this thread is about shell effects and not the guns, start another thread for that, Shell effects are overpowered, I've already listed the benefits that the other guns have over shotguns and my reasoning to keep shotguns having the same shell effects.

[Sarinpa1]

Reading through the topic has me inclined toward the proposed nerf in first post. It seems like it will archieve the best results in dealing with the outstanding issue.

[iDarkCara]

I would also agree with the first post. Shotguns need their love. A weapon chargeable to 150% @ 7 range with over 30% base crit, does not. Jackhammer I don't have an opinion on.

While I see the case for nerfing of specific shells, multishots in my opinion, are in a good place. They're strong in situations where pure damage is needed and I suppose crits (except matador) and weak when it comes to extra effects (inflicting about a third of one overcharge capable of). Nerfing the shell would directly nerf those and I would rather not see that. As spo said though, that's a different topic.