[Cerrik]

Smol' intervention here @ Bri and Moo.

Guards didn't define well his arena ban iirc (but he could use some logic here, not try to exploit the wording loophole ICly), in a way he could just call people out of the arena in order to spar. Since they said 'banned from sparring in the arena'.

The primary issue with that is Romek did his duel in the center of the arena grounds where everyone hangs out, IIRC according to an eyewitness account in Discord. Please prove me otherwise, in case I'm incorrect!

[Snake]

Hoo boy, then metagame.

[Nuclear]

Unfortunately, knowing the crowd, the responses garnered so far, and Kunai's memeing (includng the one or more parties shitting on the petition itself after you unceremoniously pointed out that it was possible) does not instill much confidence that simply remaking it will do. We'll likely have all who meaningfully signed said petition simply PM Dev in similar manner so that there can be no false identity.

[Cerrik]

Unfortunately, knowing the crowd, the responses garnered so far, and Kunai's memeing (includng the one or more parties shitting on the petition itself after you unceremoniously pointed out that it was possible) does not instill much confidence that simply remaking it will do. We'll likely have all who meaningfully signed said petition simply PM Dev in similar manner so that there can be no false identity.

I didn't point out that the petition could be abused. ;-; (Edit, I couldn't tell if you were talking to me, Kunai, or someone else. This isn't me directing your comment at me and defending myself to make you look bad or something ridiculous like that... I'm just trying to clarify. )

That's a fair enough way of handling it, IMO.

[Breakaway~totheweird]

1. Choosy in which regard? That this one scenario was point out? If so, then there's been several, other times that some instances of metagaming and godmodding have happened, and the involved parties wanted to "avoid" conflict. Be it something akin to this, or being banned/ ignored once stating their cause. Once again, I'm saying that Romek should be face the consequences of metagaming. Simply because he potentially forgot about the NPC guards doesn't mean he knowingly metagamed, much like how you say that those logs aren't concrete evidence of TPIQ metagaming.

2. To quote myself in a different line of discussion: "TPIQ logging into her character, and initiating combat with Romek with the OOC knowledge of his next offense leading to his death – matter has been ignored by the Gms. According to several roleplaying sites, the actions taken here to make certain a particular character dies (OOCly) is considered as metagaming. There really isn't any other way to describe it. When someone attaches OOC feelings, thoughts, knowledge, and motivations to IC situations, they have ignored the clear-cut line between OOC and IC. Someone managing to circumvent this by taking advantage of their position within the community should not be tolerated." In the first round of screenshots, they were seen speaking about how the person they're doing this for had an OOC attachment for a particular character, and because they have feelings for that player, that prompted this series of events. It didn't appear to have anything to do with what IC interactions those two characters have had (my own character was idling around Romek's the majority of the time).

3. If someone has bullied, harassed, tortured, or abused TPIQ, then they've entirely missed the point of any of this, which is: cracking down on metagaming (with a specific example),cracking down on godmodding (with a specific example), and looking into what emotional ties admins may or may not have with particular players.

4. I probably won't create a new petition due to how many people can't take this seriously (even by the GMs. Looking at the person who said that the people legitimately concerned with SL2's status a bunch of 'babies'), and fail to discuss things in a proper manner aside from me, you, and some others.

[Cerrik]

1. Choosy in which regard? That this one scenario was point out? If so, then there's been several, other times that some instances of metagaming and godmodding have happened, and the involved parties wanted to "avoid" conflict. Be it something akin to this, or being banned/ ignored once stating their cause. Once again, I'm saying that Romek should be face the consequences of metagaming. Simply because he potentially forgot about the NPC guards doesn't mean he knowingly metagamed, much like how you say that those logs aren't concrete evidence of TPIQ metagaming.

2. To quote myself in a different line of discussion: "TPIQ logging into her character, and initiating combat with Romek with the OOC knowledge of his next offense leading to his death – matter has been ignored by the Gms. According to several roleplaying sites, the actions taken here to make certain a particular character dies (OOCly) is considered as metagaming. There really isn't any other way to describe it. When someone attaches OOC feelings, thoughts, knowledge, and motivations to IC situations, they have ignored the clear-cut line between OOC and IC. Someone managing to circumvent this by taking advantage of their position within the community should not be tolerated." In the first round of screenshots, they were seen speaking about how the person they're doing this for had an OOC attachment for a particular character, and because they have feelings for that player, that prompted this series of events. It didn't appear to have anything to do with what IC interactions those two characters have had (my own character was idling around Romek's the majority of the time).

3. If someone has bullied, harassed, tortured, or abused TPIQ, then they've entirely missed the point of any of this, which is: cracking down on metagaming (with a specific example),cracking down on godmodding (with a specific example), and looking into what emotional ties admins may or may not have with particular players.

4. I probably won't create a new petition due to how many people can't take this seriously (even by the GMs. Looking at the person who said that the people legitimately concerned with SL2's status a bunch of 'babies'), and fail to discuss things in a proper manner aside from me, you, and some others.

I'm gonna iterate something I may not have addressed that is my stance: I'm also entirely against all forms of metagaming/godmodding/crossing IC and OOC and if you ask anyone who's known me for more than a month, I make that annoyingly clear. The only reason I refuse to sign the petition is due to the biases that are present that I will address in a moment.

1) Choosy in the regard to say that Romek wasn't 'entirely metagaming' or to quote you from earlier: "I don't think it should be counted as entirely metagaming." I am of the stance that, yes, it should be considered so because intent was not necessary to tell if he was godmodding. (... There I go. I switch those terms a lot. I should address that I put those two in the same field, and if this has caused confusion, that's entirely my fault! I'll make sure to use godmodding as my term.) When Romek dueled in an area where NPC guards could feasibly stop him but he continued anyway, that's godmodding. In your defense, you never said he shouldn't be punished for it. My argumentative point is that this should be the forefront of the issue and more directly addressed than TBIQ's possible metagaming.

(Edit: Missed an apostrophe, added it in.)

2) By the logic presented by your quote, you're saying that TBIQ is disallowed from RPing in any scenario that could lead to Romek's death since she has OOC knowledge of what would happen if he was arrested. The key factor is having that OOC knowledge 'and' acting upon it. You need both of those for it to actually be considered metagaming. We have proof that TBIQ knew what his next arrest led to but the logs are not solid proof that that is why she acted upon them. To quote Kunai (... I can't believe I'm quoting Kunai. jk ily

[Snake]

Kunai's memeing.

It's because this is already a lost cause, Dev told me to not do it on his thread, did it, had nothing else to add there. But here? Can't you see how all of this was welcomed by the people? Nobody wants Dave or Sarah to end up being labeled as 'Sigrogana's biggest Metagamer' in the end.
And nobody wants a 'glorious revolution' in a god damn BYOND game. Shame on you guys.

As for this whole 'regarding Romek', the event was simply a catalyst to make more shit spring from the ground. Needless shit. Just the soil I need to plant memes and non-serious comments aiming to ruin the topic under the 'noble cause' of cutting the evil from it's roots.

We're not even talking about Dave and Sarah's metagames or even any solutions to whatever happened anymore at this point, just trying to make a perfect RP environment, make up a Sigrogana that will never exist. You guys think Dev can simply snap his fingers and make everyone become an exemplar person godlike RPer.If he dishes out bans here and there. DUH, losing players anyway. So why BOTHER?

(keyword being game, games are made to give people fun times, not the shit im reading since yesterday at 1AM for me, where I got home helluva tired from college to see 3-5 people going "O HEY KUNAI, DID U C WOTS GEWD NIKKA? SARAH A HEARTLESS BITCH, DAVE A SHITHEAD." While I'm like 'whiggas, give me a break'.)

Just let me TL;DR my opinion about this then.

Like the way it is? Good, carry on. Or rather, close your browser and try to make something happen at SL2, I'm rooting for you and I'll be there to participate if anything nice happens.

Don't like it? Leave. Nobody is forcing you guys to stay. And even if you do leave, more people will simply replace the missing numbers. Because that's pretty much all we are in life. Numbers.

[Snake]

And yes, I'm trying my best to cut the crap, because Dev's busy. Just hope he stops reading at my memes with a grimace so he can save his precious time.

[Breakaway~totheweird]

You did a pretty okay job at cutting the crap. However, yes, this is simply a call for action. I don't care how. Also, SL2 has 25 dedicated players. The other 20 or so are more than likely alts. Losing a large portion of the playerbase would be detrimental. We also need to sit back and realize that nothing happens when everyone sits on their hands and simply "accept" SL2 for its current state. It may have caused some strife, however the community's opinions need to be heard.

[Snake]

Sorry, but your precious 25 players' opinions has been said out loud with the 'math' of all the 'very very mature and serious' actions in this thread. Yes, makes me 'a liiiiiittle' sad. But at the same time, glad. Glad that Dave and Sarah have secret little friends who care about them deep behind the iron curtain of '25 people'.

We 'live' in a binary community, example?
A line of 'yes yes yes yes yes yes' will be 'yes', always.
A line of 'yes yes no yes yes yes' will be 'no', always.

I'm getting this from the time I've spent in the Suggestions forum, trying to put up some crazy ideas or suggestions (that pmuch ended up being an unintended bug, i wonder if people will remember.) that got shut-down in a blink because one dust-worth of a comment said 'no'. After that, I've learned about this truth.

But hey, what can I do? What can you do? What can 'we' even do as a single powerless unit? Nothing. So, like I said for maybe 22 times since yesterday when I heard about the 'new cool interesting amazing desu meta-topic going on'.

Why bother? Nothing will change and I'll guarantee here that it won't. And if it does, I'll quit instead. So whenever you lack seeing 'mister memester' in SL2, you know the game changed into something robotic and boring. A roleplay made for losers in life who can't do anything better but stand infront of a computer, emulating a life they couldn't live by themselves.

SL2 is not even a complete game yet.
The Developer can't stand up from his seat to track people IRL to their homes and give them a visit with a particular psychologist.
GMs aren't programs made by Dev.
Aaaand.
Typing messages here will just be amusing me (because memes and crap-worth useless comments) and teaching me 'how2englishbetter' because I'll be practicing my reading skills, for being an outsider (hi, im BR scum like I said over one million times), nothing else can be availed from my part. Nor it will be from anybody else.