[Snake]

But thinking of it now that you said, if that is Tarnada's own power alone... Then why Charge Mind + Tavyl should ever affect it?

It doesn't make sense for an Evoker to empower Tarnada's power, if it doesn't belong to them. It's the same as Charging Mind and touching another Evoker when they are about to cast a magic, to empower the friend's invocation.

[Selfish Gene]

But thinking of it now that you said, if that is Tarnada's own power alone... Then why Charge Mind + Tavyl should ever affect it?

It doesn't make sense for an Evoker to empower Tarnada's power, if it doesn't belong to them. It's the same as Charging Mind and touching another Evoker when they are about to cast a magic, to empower the friend's invocation.

Precisely where I was going with my post. If the counter-argument of Vydel's power being correlated with the sword's power and not the user's, then why do all of these other factors come into play? It's honestly just force-feeding an already great 10* whereas others are clearly lacking.

[Snake]

I understand better what you said now, but sadly this develops into asking for a new effect for Tarnada if the weapon's theme is to be kept. And slides out of a 'Balance Fu' thread and the topic itself. (I think?)

Something like an On Critical Hit effect (with UL% chance), that makes one single tornado slash and drag the foe forward in a line until the end of the battle map, for every 4 tiles moved, the enemy takes magic wind damage equal to the Tarnada's Power, and if the enemy hits anything solid (like Dense Thunder) in the path, they get knocked down. And then, they 'may' be inflicted with Lingering Damage LV UL for 2 rounds, once the Tornado is done doing it's job. (Status Infliction Check)

Which this would be Tarnada's own on-hit skill, not a magic that can be enhanced by Evoker's perks.

[Selfish Gene]

That sounds viable if there were a few minor tweaks and decisions based on the maximum damage output and whatnot. Because if the new effect was exactly as you worded it, then I feel it wouldn't take very long for countless people to start thinking it's quite unfair and equally as overloaded. I think the idea of having Tarnada cast Vydel is great on paper but not in action, as clearly shown. I would be entirely supportive for thinking of a new effect for it, albeit taking a significantly longer time for it to take place due to re-coding and brainstorming new ideas. If any temporary fixes were given, I stand by my UL/2% idea for the time being until this is all settled. Charge Mind and Talvyd shouldn't affect the Tarnada's Vydel due to the weapon's strengths and not the user's, and 24% chance is mighty generous for a skill that has no true counterplay.

[PantherPrincess]

I think Gold's storms aren't supposed to be hitting people for a free 650-850 wind damage and a knockdown, but that's just me, maybe.

Like the OP said, even if you lower the UL% chance to trigger it, it will still be a chance to insta-murder people and their team if they're cramped together. Tarnada needs counter-play.

Yes, but even said 650-850 damage needs some form of build-up and luck to it. Is it disastrous if it does land? Of course, it is, no one likes to lose from such an instakill and "unskillful" play. In order to reach that, however, in its current state, the individual needs to sacrifice one of their slots with a casting tool, cast charge mind preemptively and be lucky enough to proc that 24% chance. Does that justify the damage amount and "outplay" of it? Of course not.

With this said, lowering it to a 12% chance rather than a 24% chance literally halves the likelihood of it happening. It's better than slapping a silence counter and calling it a day since lore-wise it doesn't make sense for silence to have an effect. If anything, maybe having charge mind not have an effect on Vydel if it's honestly that dreadful.

Okay so the lore doesn't stop Vydel from being a magical spell still so I don't see why it would not be stopped by silence. It's almost like you're saying Tarnada can cast Vydel without a user??? Either way I agree with Fern the best solution is for silence to stop it.

[Selfish Gene]

I never said the lore stops Vydel from being a magical spell, so please don't take what I said out of context. I'm saying that from the description alone, it says "Tarnada is a sword empowered by the storms of the desert on Gold. Storing that power, it will suddenly and chaotically unleash it when it decides it wants to."

This implies that when the 24% Vydel is proc'd, it's more so the "stored power" that is unleashed and not that of the player. For example, it can still proc if I were to run Kensei/BK but the damage would be abysmally low due to the sheer lack of a casting tool + Charge Mind. I'm not saying that adding a silence to it is a bad solution, I'm just saying it feels more like a jump to the conclusion and slap something on and call it a day solution. The way that I would rather seeing things be balanced is by having a thorough discussion where every possibility is highlighted and not ignore some facts, such as the very item's description.

It's perfectly fine that you're interpreting that description how you are, but in my mind, it's more of the sword's power and not so much the user's. The reason I'm hesitant to having it be a silence proc as well is because there are ways to counter that either way. If someone feels especially devious, they can pop a Throatopener for 3 momentum and use sidecut for another 3 momentum and still have a chance to proc said CM + Talvyd Vydel within a turn. That's why I think it was important to highlight other solutions because that's more of a bump than a fix.

[PantherPrincess]

I never said the lore stops Vydel from being a magical spell, so please don't take what I said out of context. I'm saying that from the description alone, it says "Tarnada is a sword empowered by the storms of the desert on Gold. Storing that power, it will suddenly and chaotically unleash it when it decides it wants to."

This implies that when the 24% Vydel is proc'd, it's more so the "stored power" that is unleashed and not that of the player. For example, it can still proc if I were to run Kensei/BK but the damage would be abysmally low due to the sheer lack of a casting tool + Charge Mind. I'm not saying that adding a silence to it is a bad solution, I'm just saying it feels more like a jump to the conclusion and slap something on and call it a day solution. The way that I would rather seeing things be balanced is by having a thorough discussion where every possibility is highlighted and not ignore some facts, such as the very item's description.

It's perfectly fine that you're interpreting that description how you are, but in my mind, it's more of the sword's power and not so much the user's. The reason I'm hesitant to having it be a silence proc as well is because there are ways to counter that either way. If someone feels especially devious, they can pop a Throatopener for 3 momentum and use sidecut for another 3 momentum and still have a chance to proc said CM + Talvyd Vydel within a turn. That's why I think it was important to highlight other solutions because that's more of a bump than a fix.

Oh okay I see what you're saying I was a little confused but I still think Tarnada should be affected by silence even if the solution to this is something else.

[Selfish Gene]

Which is fair enough and your opinion on the matter is greatly appreciated. In truth, I honestly just want this entire dilemma to be solved sooner than later. I was going to make my own thread regarding the Tarnada's sheer power along, so I'm glad that Fern made this nonetheless. I just think that slapping a silence to cancel the proc to this being a little jumpy, is all.

[Reikou]

Tarnada is in kind of a weird spot: Unless you're an Evoker trying to cheese people then chances are you will be better off with a different sword, but if you are then it becomes broken. Or at least that's the impression I got after using it for a while on PvE and watching a couple PvP fights.

As such I believe that it would be much more healthy to just change its skill to Wind Slasher ( And/Or perhaps remove the charge mind compatibility ) since not everyone can actually inflict silence and they shouldn't be expected to just so they don't get insta gibbed by this combo, that and it would actually make the sword melee-friendly since Wind Slasher doesn't Knock the target back.

[Raigen.Convict]

Alright, here's my input on it, I say silence is fine to gimp it. As far as its crazy damage, yeah it's pretty neat but all at once have you forgotten the fact that this weapon is among the rarest of all of them in the game? Why gimp an item that's practically impossible to get? A lot of times ten stars fill very particular niches making them useless if not built for. So you have to be built specifically to use this thing first off, SECONDLY it needs to crit, THIRDLY it's only a chance to happen, and 660 to 800 damage is if they get cm off and THEN crit you within the few turns that it lasts. Most of the time players either can hit from a distance to deny this entirely, are built to hit the enemy first with a knock-down silence, hit hard enough that they don't even need crits to gimp someone or can simply tank the damage. Or even silence and blind you.

TL;DR: I say a silence working to stop vydel is enough of a counter-play since Blind exists.