[Snake]

I believe them being 'Turrets' while on Gattling Mode (read: Immobile, but has a range of effect enemies will want to shift the combat zone away from, like Sanctuary works, or Cinder/Ice tiles) and holding a higher power thanks to it is what this bot really needs. Since this concept is quite unique, sans a certain gun potential nobody uses because being immobilized is way too crippling.

I also agree that, while I suggested the rest for Metalaegis and Medibot, I don't really wish for them to receive anything extra if it's too much a problem since both of them can quite (somewhat?) do their designated combat roles of "Healing" and "Defending". But Turret really, really needs to become something fearful at the moment, its design was to be "Damage" or "Offense", but it lacks both heavily to the point you'll want to only invest in the two others, and be the turret yourself.

I also had another idea along this thread, but found it complicated. Which revolved around destroying your own weapon (i.e, lowering durability by percentage) over the course of the fight to gain 'scraps', and then use Bashfix on an Engineer Bot while holding Scraps to upgrade them. This, inspired from Team Fortress 2's Engineer.

[Fern]

I don't think Engineer is 'weak' no, my bad if my phrasing came off that way. It's just that currently people tend to only use it for bombing/item bonuses rather than what I'd (personally) expect to be the core part of the class, which is the whole stuff with robots/upgrades.

[Raigen.Convict]

Engineer is essentially in the same spot summoner used to be in. It's good but good for the reasons that should be added bonuses to what the main focus of the class is. Nobody is in the wrong for using the class for the added effects it has that are NOT the bots... But the bots shouldn't be so hard to utilize that it just immediately turns you off from trying to do so in the first place. That's how I feel about it.

[FaeLenx]

Do keep in mind that just because a class isn't played often doesn't mean it's weak, an engineer is very powerful in team battles, it's just very team-dependent to really shine. 1m positioning skill to your team is very strong, and so can the grenades and bombs be. It can also shred certain tank builds that are reliant on earth damage, or surprise people with overload damage. And refraction can be extremely situationally mildly useful too - And protect is never anything to scoff at as much as people joke. Aegisbot will literally take a bullet for you.

TLDR: Entire class doesn't need reworked, bots are lackluster though and could stand to be brought in line with the rest of their kit hence support.

I've played a lot of engineer lately and all I can really say is that the idea that it's somehow great in team battles ignores the fact that someone doing a marginal lot more AoE damage is much better. 1 momentum reposition sounds great, but it costs 3 momentum for you to throw it on them, and they get to use it twice at the highest rank. Most people have some low momentum movement that will get them within range of the enemy already.

The grenades are an okay amount of damage, but getting out of their range is easy unless you skip turn or have low enough celerity where no other enemy goes after you. Cobra stance shuts this down entirely because the grenades go off at the start of the next turn instead of the end of your turn, so you can't pop DHs with your bots to get them to blow their dodges.

As for the bots themselves?

In a duel situation, the medibot exists entirely to eat potions where people scratch their heads and wonder if that's okay. For the cost of 3 momentum placing them down in a real fight, it would almost always be better to just get the immediate heal using a pr. hi potion. Considering you can get extra bag space with engineer, you can spam these pretty well, usually. Without adding new skills, adding movement range to the medibot would make it a much more attractive option because its current effective range of healing in a turn is 4 tiles. Adding in actual skills for it to use would definitely be a step in the right direction for making you wonder why you didn't just go bonder.

The turret is next to worthless for anything other than using its auto hit to take pliska's off of someone or something similar to that. It doesn't do much damage, it doesn't have enough hit to get almost anyone in PVP, and trying to use ignite engine for PVP is just a win or lose because of that. It has a low mana pool so against anyone with CEL, it's eventually just useless entirely.

Metalaegis is honestly where I find the bots shine most. Because it shuts down some builds almost as effectively as kensei shuts down MGunners. It's easy enough to counter for most people, and barring something in the kit there's at least one item that can be used to push either the aegis or the player away from one another without triggering protect. The reflection skill is just as situational, and placing it on a player's tile directly often leaves the player getting hit by the AoE projectile before reflecting it because it can be shot at an angle.

As for problems with the bots in general? They are easy to destroy, take 150 focus and 9 momentum to get all three out compared to the cost of putting out something more useful like youkai, have horrible hit values against anyone but a no dodge tank, and they make for easy targets for things like titan gale or rebound. Against most players, I've found that not putting them out is absolutely better than letting them see the field.

With that said, they do come in handy sometimes. Building yourself toward being effective in a teamfight by giving someone jetpack means you're going to be useless in any other type of fight, though, and I still don't see giving someone jetpack as very good considering most people can handle themselves and it's 3 momentum to let them use a 1 momentum move twice.

[Victorious Razor]

Precision Module - 3M - Uses 10% of the Bot's HP - Increases the Turret's Hit by 100, lowers Critical by 100, cleanses Blind (and grants immunity) for 3 rounds. If the Turret is under the effects of Interference or Confusion, the Hit bonus will be halved.

I'd honestly say it doesn't need it's critical lowered at all, considering if your crit evade is low enough to get hit by it in the first place then you deserved it. The turret already has pretty abysmal rates.

I'd like to add on my own suggestion onto this however. Maybe we can add passives to the bots that encourage sticking close and repairing them?

As an example;
Medibot - (Level / 7) HP Regen per turn for those within 2/3 Range.
Metalaegis - (Level / 10) Armor/Magical Armor for those within 2/3 range.
Turret - Honestly not sure.

For the Turret, I'd suggest something like firing (Level/20) shots at all targets in 1/2/3/4/5 range (based on rank), requiring a hit check.
Similarly for the other 'passives' suggested, I'd make their ranges scale with the ranks put into the bots; you're already pouring 50 FP per bot and, bar the Metalaegis at times, they're all pretty easy to take down.

[Kiranis]

Throwing in my tow cents here. Because ive been thinking about the engineer attachments.

I believe the attachments should provide buffs to the bots much like auto enchant does for the mage. Perhaps depending on rank there is a chance of # of use of Jetpack Flamethrower Grenade launcher and Electro shield the turrets begin with

Though if had to do my own.

Flamer Attachment. When the Turret is deployed it has X chance depending on rank to deploy with this attachment

Basic attack now apples bonus fire damage per shot and gains skills Flamethrower deals Fire damage in a 7 tile long line leaving cinder tiles. being enchanted with Nerhaven makes it 3 tiles wide I'm no goo at starting damage but probably based off the engineers fire attack 2 Round CD 3M

Vent. Deals Minor fire damage in all tiles surrounding the turret (steam) and reduces the firthrowers CD to 0 3M

Expanded Rack the Medibot . Gains additional uses of consumables and begins play with extra consumables (i would also revise the item deploy range skill to also affect the medibot) Bombs Extra uses of the healing potions anti toxin and courage and blue potions depending on rank

Thrusters Gives every Bot X uses of Jetpack on a 1 turn CD increases their base movment by 1 per 2 ranks

Electro Shield all bots start with an electo shield based on rank in additon Metal Aegis gains the ability to use it as a skill in addition to the following

When protect Triggers and Electroshield is up inflict interference on the attacker and deal Lightning damage on the attacker. (also fix protect kthx)

[Kiranis]

Time for a Double Post.


I had a second idea.

a more indepth one but one that I like so ill also share it.



Make engineer like the DH

One skill tree is Turret one is Medi One is Aegis one is Engie/Passives.

Get rid of Good Materials

Bots Scale off Guile (50%?) and have slightly higher base stats

Turret. Gains shots fired based on rank. at 3 shots should be about as powerful as the old turret.

Upgrades Give it the Firthrower A Rocket Launcher and a AltFire Snipershot/ShotgunShot (that knocks down)

Congradulatons now the Turret is GUNS representing all the guns in the game in some fashion.

Passives include Giving it a grenade launcher shot and gaining move for each turn it spends stationary ?

Medibot. Gains items based on rank.including dark water vials bombs and blue potions

Upgrades
increase the quantity of items
Increase Quality of items
Giving it A Healing and FP restore Skill (not an item)
Changing it's movement Type eventually gaining teleport and movment range.

Passives Electro Shield to deter attackers Increase item deploy range

AegisShield Ranks give it more Shields

Reflector.(Magic) Reflects Magic skills back at the attacker
Reflector (Ranged) Reflects Ranged attacks and skills back at the attacker
Reflector (Melee) Reflects melee skills back at the attacker
You can only deploy one type of shield every turn

At rank four Each shield lasts an additional turn and shield that is about to expire actvates and charges the nearest foe explosing for some small damage (they shieldds have limited movment range of 3-5 tiles)

At rank 5 the shields trigger an additional time punishing you twice for hitting one they can be destroyed and they still only block one tile.


PASSIVES

Grenade LAuncher. give every bot a 1M grenade launcher that acts liek the current one.
Guile up stat boost.
Handymans Secret Weapon. allows you to use shotguns as axes for the purposes of repair and bashfix
Repair and Bashfix work as they do currently bashfix also lowers skill cooldowns on weapons by one every two ranks
Build it Better. your shotguns now hit in a 2x3 area
Click Click Boom. Basic Attacking Twice wth a shotgun causes additional knockback and any bots that the targets pass in range of wll be fired upon. (think pinball strike)

[Snake]

Too many ideas for just one problem, which is Deploy: Turret skill's summon.

I appreciate the view, but I don't want to have Engineer overtuned or change anything other than making them get more reliable offensive bots. (For the second time. I hope my prayers are answered this time.)

Refer to the OP and my second post clarifying over how the two other bots are not as horrible as the only offensive bot (Turret) in existence, and that what I posted was optional and just in case Dev feels like it's necessary.

[FaeLenx]

How is a bot that costs 50 focus and 3 momentum to put out not an awful alternative to just drinking a PR. Hi potion in regular combat? Medicopters are bad.

[Kiranis]

How is a bot that costs 50 focus and 3 momentum to put out not an awful alternative to just drinking a PR. Hi potion in regular combat? Medicopters are bad.

because it's a summon. has items other then one high potion can attack and soak damage