[Rendar]

A badges Elemental weakness, especially for one like Quaking only gives a 25% Water weakness. Which with a stamp becomes 20% Water weakness. Any coral gear they wear lowers it even further. There are about 5 water attacks in the entire game, one of which tells them before the fight you're wearing it.

Ensui ( Show )
Drown
Black Bubble ( Half Dark, Half Water Dark usually comes first so they can resist easy )
Kel ( Not enough damage to actually matter about it hitting a weakness. It'll do about 25 more damage, maybe. )
Parraeta ( Grinding Youkai )
Whirlpool ( Grinding Youkai )

Okay. So six I can think of off the top of my head. Most of which go to summoners. WIL based summoners.

[Ryu-Kazuki]

Sarinpa1 » Sat Jan 31, 2015 9:51 am[/url]"]2. and lazarus wind charges up your spell, pushes people away AND knocks them down at the same time. Pushes away a melee fighter and unless you got some pimpin' sidecut etc you can't even hurt them when you get up. Yet it's an okay thing. Don't see why a skill couldn't do two things. Closing a gap effectively is the classes gimmick.

Hi, I'm A Quaking Heaven Kick Monk with Body of Isep, and I'm going to use your Lazarus wind AGAINST YOU IN ORDER TO KNOCK YOU DOWN AND MAKE YOU WASTE M BECAUSE I HAVE BODY OF ISEP TO PROTECT ME FROM DAMAGE. MUHAHAHAHAHA.

Just saying. I don't even play Monk, nor do I fight them, but I can understand Blues' side of the argument entirely. It's annoying, spammy garbage that people resort to in order to flaunt their "OP"ness and isn't even tactical or fair at all. Hell it doesn't even affect just Evokers, Archers get fucked too because of their Hit penalty and Monks get Protection from Arrows.

On Guard is hardly an argument, especially for Evokers because it takes more than one turn to set up. Guess what? QUAKING HEAVEN KICK, MUHAHAHAHA!

Okay bye.

[Sarinpa1]

Lazarus wind does not push you far enough for the knockdown.
Spammable my ass as you've to move away.

Flaunt OPness? What does that even....what?

The point was posted not as a "counter againts monk" but as comparison technique.

Yeah. Bye. See you when you actualy know what you're talking about.

[Soapy]

1. You can't spam Knockdown. Period. It's literally impossible because of On Guard. If you don't have it, that's your problem.
2. They give up an item and skill slot along with 3M to close the gap and inflict ~30 or so damage while costing you 3M. Unless you have MA.
3. Even without On Guard, it only happens once per battle, since knockdown only works if you run away. Have you tried not running away?

Ranylyn:
1. Evoker mains are the main ones arguing against changing it. Get that magic stick out of your ass, thanks.

Ryu:
1. Heaven Kick isn't even a Monk skill so I don't even know why you're bitching about Body of Isesip, which is also fine.
2. You literally said you never play it or play against it, so your opinion on the matter is completely invalid.

[Ryu-Kazuki]

Soapy » Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:36 pm[/url]"]1. You can't spam Knockdown. Period. It's literally impossible because of On Guard. If you don't have it, that's your problem.
2. They give up an item and skill slot along with 3M to close the gap and inflict ~30 or so damage while costing you 3M. Unless you have MA.
3. Even without On Guard, it only happens once per battle, since knockdown only works if you run away. Have you tried not running away?

Ranylyn:
1. Evoker mains are the main ones arguing against changing it. Get that magic stick out of your ass, thanks.

Ryu:
1. Heaven Kick isn't even a Monk skill so I don't even know why you're bitching about Body of Isesip, which is also fine.
2. You literally said you never play it or play against it, so your opinion on the matter is completely invalid.

1: I was never complaining about BoI, I was saying how it can exacerbate the situation at hand. Please don't twist my words.
2: My opinion is valid based on the fact it's still a factual combination and tactic in battle. I don't have to play it to read the wiki and know how it works or how I can use it in battle. It's not that hard to plan things out.
3: Any idiot who reads the wiki or looks at the class board knows it's not a Monk skill, I was providing an example which you obviously didn't get.
4: You can sit in place in melee range and still get fucked over, or they can run away from you and QHK all over again. So standing still doesn't make much of a difference either.
5: Spiked Treads give people an immunity to knockback and seemingly knockdown (that may be incorrect on the last part), meaning Lazarus Wind is useless against anyone who wears them.
6: Arguing that giving up an item and skill slot is barely anything with the number of skill slots people get these days, that's like arguing that the Evoker has to use up a trait slot to use On Guard. As for an item slot, it's an item that has very little to no drawbacks due to Sderg showing the lack of Water based skills in game that already do poor damage and you get a free stamp for. Or we can argue also how the stamp takes up a stamp slot.

[Soapy]

I've never done it, and I've never seen it happen, but I'm right because the wiki said so!

Despite all these PvP mongers I constantly complain about saying I'm wrong.. again..

If you're going to use big words to seem intelligent, you could at least invest in a spell checker.

[Sarinpa1]

Let's not get down to his game of pointless bickering, da?

Ryu before using lazarus wind again, how about you read the /-reason-/ why it was mentioned, hm?

Everyone that doesn't have onguard clearly wastes points in pretty useless traits. Like, damn. And yes it's your fault if you don't have it. Skill slots =/= trait points. Completely different.

Hello, dense thunder anyone? If you want to knockdown spam, quite more effective.

Moving away to QHK? Six momentum for knockdown and terribly shit damage output. I'm /SURE/ people will go do just that!

[Ryu-Kazuki]

Soapy » Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:58 pm[/url]"]

I've never done it, and I've never seen it happen, but I'm right because the wiki said so!

Despite all these PvP mongers I constantly complain about saying I'm wrong.. again..

I'm going to twist peoples' words around and insult them because I think that's proper conduct for an argument. I'm right when I say people can't sit down, plan something out in their head or on paper before they do something to avoid making a mistake, because that's obviously unintelligent.

Honestly. It's not hard to sit and think about something. And bashing people over a typo is ridiculous. Just because there are ways to avoid it, which can easily be counterplayed by someone who plans things out, doesn't mean it's not a problem.

You've provided your argument, other people provided theirs. Why waste time sitting here all day pointing out this this and that, that can undo what someone else just did. It's not even just an Evoker problem, it's a problem for any class. It doesn't matter how far away you are, what you have against it, it still can easily just ignore whatever you do to counter it, get distance, and do it all over again.

Ever heard of Shukuchi -> Move -> QHK? Guess not.

[Rendar]

I think a good balancing idea would be for it to add +2 damage per square traveled and get rid of the KD component, or at the least push it to a farther-enough medium ( Maybe 8 squares away before you KD? ). That would make it more useful. Heck, the +2 damage per square traveled is already really nice.

[Miller]

Ryu-Kazuki » Sat Jan 31, 2015 5:08 pm[/url]"]
Ever heard of Shukuchi -> Move -> QHK? Guess not.

Shukuchi costs 1 momentum now and regardless that's spending 6 momentum to remove 3 from your opponent.