[MegaBlues]

And even for cutthroat, you can just shove your butt to a wall.

Walls: the silence of VAs.

Vanishing Strike would like to have a word with you.

[Sawrock]

And even for cutthroat, you can just shove your butt to a wall.

Walls: the silence of VAs.

Vanishing Strike would like to have a word with you.

It would, but it's been silenced. 

On a more serious note, if you're able to use Vanishing Strike, one of two things is happening:

• You've mainclassed void assassin and thus don't have access to Fleur and lost 10 hit, so someone having their butt to a wall doesn't even matter- you're not a crit build to begin with.
  
• You've spent 80 points in APT, thus losing many stats for the ability to use void energy.
  

[Trexmaster]

For posterity's sake I'll list out all the silences available in the game.

Sonic Shell (Bonus) - Magic Gunner (2 rounds)
Sonic Arrow (Annorum) - Ranger (3 rounds)
Drowning Chant - Aquamancer (2 rounds, 3 if spending 8 stacks)
Death Gaze - Ghost (2 rounds)
Absolute Fear - Kensei (2 rounds max)
Black Bubble - Hexer (2 rounds)
Strangling Etacof - Hexer (4-5 rounds - requires Silence to apply, 5 rounds is if spirited)
Sturm Shreik - Boxer (2 rounds)
Cutthroat - Void Assassin (2 rounds, 3 if critical hit)
Black Bolt (20 Void Energy) - Void Assassin (2 rounds)
Drown - Summoner (3 rounds but only if cast from the youkai itself, meaning largely static status infliction numbers. A level 60 Drowned Woman with 5/5 Affinity has about 110 status infliction.)
Shizumare, Tsukikage - (2 rounds on crit, 4 rounds of immunity)
Fox's Deception - Redtail (2 rounds, Scaled STR% chance to inflict)
Constrictor Snake - Naga (2 rounds, must wrap an already grappled/restrained enemy)
Invite Insanity - Papillion (2 rounds, randomly selected from Blind, Fear, Charm, Poison, and Silence. Unique in that it will always apply on round start, so Heron Feather will not negate it on the 20% chance that it applies.)

So that's 16 sources of silence in the entire game that's accessible to players.

Of those 16, 13 are 2 rounds, two of which CAN be 3 rounds conditionally.

Heron Feather will negate 10 of the 16 silences entirely if you go first, only Invite Insanity avoids it while being two rounds due to applying on round start.

This leaves you with these silences being viable if Heron Feather is in play:
Sonic Arrow
Drowning Chant (8 stacks)
Cutthroat (Critical)
Strangling Etacof (must be applied immediately the turn Silence is applied unless, for some reason, you're using it in combination with one of the aforementioned 3 round silences?)
Drown (if they have sub 110 status resist)
Invite Insanity (if you're a Papillion)

On the other hand, I'll list out sources of Immobilize, Clumsy, and Frozen. I'll denote the lvl for the Frozen applications. I'm not gonna bother with sources of Grapple but there's those, too. Like four unique versions of it, for some reason. Wrap, Snake Wrap, Embrace, and....Grapple. They all basically act as Immobilize but without the immunity, and important to note, Grapple is universally available.

Immobilize - Application of Ice damage vs Soaked (Until next turn)
Immobilize - Chain Shell (High Charge) - Magic Gunner (Until next turn)
Frozen - Celsius Shell (High Charge) - Magic Gunner (2 rounds) LVL 140-160
Frozen - Frozen Arrow (Annorum) - Ranger (Until next turn OR 3 rounds if target was Soaked) LVL 225-300
Immobilize - On A Leash - Dark Bard (Until next turn)
Immobilize - Dancing Water - Aquamancer (2 rounds, applies on round start)
Frozen - Cold Splash (9 stacks) - Aquamancer (3 rounds) LVL 100
Clumsy - Intoxicating Mist (Water) - Aquamancer (2 round, 3 if 3 stacks are consumed)
Frozen - Crystal Rose (Kraken) - Duelist (2 rounds) LVL 20
Immobilize - Pierce Linker - Firebird (Until next turn, require hitting multiple targets in a line)
Immobilize - Anchor Rune - Rune Magician (Until next turn if engraved OR 2 rounds if triggered)
Immobilize - Sky Chariot - Monk (2 rounds, if target is knocked down and you are airborne)
Frozen - Icicle Spear (Ice Point Guard) - Verglas (3 rounds) LVL 200
Clumsy - Board Shaker - Black Knight (2 rounds)
Immobilize - Seed Sniper (Until next turn, if water damage is taken the same turn on hit)
Immobilize - Quicksand - Blacksand (2 rounds)
Immobilize - Fangfare (Until next turn on evade)
Frozen - Sogensara (2 rounds, only if the enemy is a Plant) LVL 10
Clumsy - Ryeser (Until next turn on crit)
Immobilize - Wild Grass - Doriad (1-5 rounds. +1 if your CEL is lower and +1 per 16 scaled SAN)
Clumsy - Venom Fatigue - Wyverntouched (3 rounds, applied with Poison Bite)

So we have a grand total of 11 Immobilize sources, 6 Frozen sources, and 4 Clumsy sources.

With the Soaked application and Grapple being universal almost everyone can get some way to Immobilize and the only preemptive mitigation that exists is Dance Hour for 3 rounds of immunity on a 10 round cooldown.

Whereas on the other hand your options for Silences that will stick are extremely limited if your opponent has built preemptive mitigation for it.

I agree that in general if you're burning 3m on a status cure you should get at least a round or two of immunity to that status to avoid situations where you're repeatedly inflicted with a debilitating status. Though with Silence in its current state, you can hardly get any of it to stick without being a Hexer, Ranger, or Void Assassin. The majority of Silence applications in the game are useless because of Heron Feather.

You might not like having to run Heron Feather but when it negates the thing you're cripplingly weak to I feel like it's worth it.

I'd be on board for an immunity to Silence effects post inflict being added if we got duration increases for the current 2 round silences. It is baffling to me that Sonic Shell, Death Gaze, Absolute Fear, and Black Bolt are all 2 rounds when they require at least 6m setup, and they all burn valuable resources of their classes to pull off. They used to be better until Silence got the aforementioned sweeping nerf across the board.

We're already dangerously close thanks to one item (Heron Feather) and the many nerfs to Silence to having Silence be entirely negated without even building status resistance. I get that it's not fun to have your class negated. SL2 really shouldn't be balanced around who disables the other person's build first in terms of PvP. That's just how it currently is right now, and changing one part to benefit Evoker will only skew the balance in its favor and make everyone else suffer because now we have Charge Mind Invocations that you cannot stop bar murdering the Evoker before they one-tap you through 60%+ mitigation.

Thus my aforementioned suggestion to, if we get Silence immunity, at the very least have some of the 2 round Silences apply for at least 3 rounds instead. It's a band-aid fix until larger changes happen, like adjusting Evoker to not be so reliant on raw damage numbers that it simply taps CM before erasing everything. It isn't fun for anyone when the only response is to prevent the Evoker from playing the game before they make their HP 0.

[Autumn]

I still think that my suggestion to give Throatopener silence immunity on curing silence with 5 ranks of Perfect is a perfectly serviceable idea and doesn't clash with either party's thoughts, the item's not exactly the most worthwhile of a one use item right now anyways.

[firehawk11]

Silence is just one of those things we require now a days because magic elements are quite strong, roughly 60% stronger then a lot of physical skills. (Bard breaks this rule somehow without being magic yet does like 200% elemental damage which is higher then stuff like Shinken from Soldier at 120% SWA). A lot of spells average at 200% total scaling, 210% with a white spirit. Well a lot of physical skill average at around 120% - 130% if you're lucky with a white spirit.