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Torso Enchants
#1
Let's face it. Most torso catalysts don't really hold a candle to Gigantic Gene. 10% increase in HP (usually 90-100, sometimes more) is hard to pass up, and the weight bonus ends up being a benefit to some classes even. At worst, it prevents you from using boulder on your armor. Dodgies are an exception, of course, given the evade penalty.

Notable potential fill-ins for it include:

Leviathan - Lesser GG, good if you can't afford the weight or evade penalty.
Tannin - If you're really hurting for focus somehow, could be okay? Seems niche, but I can see it.
Mutation - EXTREMELY niche, I personally wouldn't use it for torso, but I can potentially maybe see how someone would if they really had to.
Bleached Fang - Used to not even consider this an option, but I heard someone say that the damage from a dodged crit would make up for the 100ish HP you get from GG, so that makes enough sense to me.
Pitch Black Feather - Not worth it for the armor, but I can see the evade being pretty nice if you're an engineer or summoner.

Things that won't be included in the 'too weak to consider' section mostly just include the Elemental enchants and the like, as they can at least be put on the legs or hands instead of the (in my opinion) more valuable torso slot.


Now onto the true headscratchers for me:

Volcanic Seed - I don't really think of substituting torso to weapon the same way I think of subbing torso to hand or leg, thus why this is here. As a torso slot, this is... awful. I'm not entirely sure why it was nerfed to begin with, but level 15 field tiles of an element that's easily resisted to begin with is just... bad. There is NO way I can see this ever being a suitable option over leviathan, fang or giant gene. Also the little 25 HP and the synergy with Firebird, but I'm not really sure that elevates that to the level of the others.
Sweet Leaf - 30% chance to inflict charm level... 10. Charm is a powerful status, don't get me wrong, but 10 is very low for it being only 30% chance for 3 rounds. Doing damage to your target lowers that duration per instance, too. If it was a 100% chance and didn't lower duration per hit, it'd still only break even with Giant Gene (10% DR vs 10% extra damage you can take. Not fully equivalent, but you get the point.) If you go before others, there's a chance you won't even get to see the benefit of this at all.

So, what changes would I propose for these? Well...

Volcanic Seed - Yeah, I have no idea. I can't imagine it was nerfed for no reason, so I don't think my 'just revert it back' would be very helpful.
Sweet Leaf - Now this one, I actually have something for:
30% chance on round start to inflict all enemies in 3 range with Charm level 15 for 3 rounds. When damaging a target with Charm level 15 or lower, don't lower the duration of the charm.

I feel this is more in line with the Alraune it drops from, and its a slight bit more numerically significant to actually hold up to the other torso slot items.


Either way. Let me know if you think any of the fill-ins I mentioned should actually be buffed, or if you have any ideas for buffs or anything, especially for volcanic seed.
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#2
You're ignoring the important and buffed part of Sweetleaf which ks what actually makes it viable for some builds

You're also overrating Giant Gene due to a common misunderstanding-

It only increases the hp given to you by base stats, so it doesn't include stuff like pain tolerance or hexer passive or fortitude and so on.

For the vast majority of builds its 7 to 9 vitality worth of stats.

Bleached fang is likely the best chest mutate atm due to the over representation of critters atm and how it's 25 effective stats against them.


So I rather disagree with your methodology.

As for suggestions? I don't wanna see sweet leaf changed.

I *do* wanna see volcanic changed though. You're right it's bad and needs some help.
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#3
A quick test proves that you're wrong about the hexer passive at the least, not gonna bother disproving the rest step by step. 500 HP flat put me at 550 with giant gene, 605 with both GG and Endurance. If they didn't multiply one another, it'd have just been a flat 600.

As for the 'important and buffed part' of sweetleaf, you didn't bother mentioning what that is. Reading the enchant as written, I don't see anything buffed compared to what I laid out.
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#4
(08-14-2023, 06:26 AM)MothEnthusiast Wrote: A quick test proves that you're wrong about the hexer passive at the least, not gonna bother disproving the rest step by step. 500 HP flat put me at 550 with giant gene, 605 with both GG and Endurance. If they didn't multiply one another, it'd have just been a flat 600.

As for the 'important and buffed part' of sweetleaf, you didn't bother mentioning what that is. Reading the enchant as written, I don't see anything buffed compared to what I laid out.

I'm incredibly confident about GG. You're getting some extra stats from somewhere. 

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments...iscord.jpg

If you want more proof here's an ehp calculator I created after a large amount of work https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1...p=drivesdk

As for sweetleaf, it's on patch notes.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments...image0.jpg
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#5
That's hardly a buff, though I will have to test if that's only for basic attacks or any skill / spell used with a whip. Either way, I hardly see how that makes sweet leaf worthwhile in comparison to, say... Play cute or lovely face. You know, level 40 charm. Hell, it's even a 30% flat, where most charmers can get 100% against most characters by having 170-200 inflict. It's very rare to see someone with enough status res to lower that below a 30%.

As for being sure.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1.../image.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1.../image.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1.../image.png

If I ABSOLUTELY must, I'll go test in the test server as well.
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#6
The calculator is incorrect.

I just showed you the developer of the game confirming.

Test if you wish.

It's a buff because you can play cute for massive charm and then not lose it to rose whip damage. Or rose toss. It was nerfed pre going off testing for the reason that it was silly strong without getting limited to rose whip. It's still strong just a quieter niche.
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#7
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1.../image.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1.../image.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1.../image.png

The developer can forget things. Plus, he didn't explicitly say they didn't stack in that post anyway my guy. Please, PLEASE, go test for yourself. You're incorrect.

EDIT: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1.../image.png
Stats for easy testing.
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#8
Dude it's not recursive.

Endurance is increasing it 10%. 550 + 10% from endurance is 605.

That works correct cause Endurance *does* affect other stuff, not the other way around.

Change to fortitude.

Try pain tolerance

Try warwalk

Go on.

You could see this if you bothered to check the spreadsheet.
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#9
You yourself said they didn't work off eachother, it doesn't matter which works off which. Either way, it's getting heavily off topic. GG and Endurance DO work together, as was my original point. As for saying 'it's not a buff', I was talking exclusively in the context of the original post, IE Sweet Leaf. The whips not lowering charm is all well and good on lovely face and other sources of charm, but using Sweet Leaf really just isn't good even in that context. You're 100000% better off using any of the other sources of charm. They're not particularly rare unless you're a non-papilion corrupted, and even then you can get something from your class.
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#10
(08-14-2023, 07:25 AM)MothEnthusiast Wrote: You yourself said they didn't work off eachother, it doesn't matter which works off which. Either way, it's getting heavily off topic. GG and Endurance DO work together, as was my original point. As for saying 'it's not a buff', I was talking exclusively in the context of the original post, IE Sweet Leaf. The whips not lowering charm is all well and good on lovely face and other sources of charm, but using Sweet Leaf really just isn't good even in that context. You're 100000% better off using any of the other sources of charm. They're not particularly rare unless you're a non-papilion corrupted, and even then you can get something from your class.

So does fortitude and pain Tol and the other stuff work after testing?

Right, the strength of Sweet Leaf is not lowering charm not the charm itself.

I'd recommend trying the whip build in some 1v1s as a tanky character. It is very strong.
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