12-20-2022, 11:32 AM
The rules, and how things play and feel, are entirely different beasts. Besides, I haven't really seen the rules being all that much enforced if we look at cases like Schaffung who has been literally imprisoned for OOC months.
But you also see people rather repurpose the character instead of going through "one day jail" (which usually is not that) because RP logic feels pretty iffy if people HAVE to let you go. Its the "no consequences make Timmy dull boy"-thing, this goes both ways. People that capture them get fed up they have to do it over and over again, and the people getting captured are just like "At some point, my character should either be executed or he would learn...Or be locked up for good". besides it's difficult to RP with a character that has ANY sort of mark on them as most people flat-out nazi-deny interactions with you making it just more convenient to be someone else.
Not saying that this is good or bad. Its just how it is and the way the game supports most mechanically and with the communities Rp mentality. Just how "Fodder-Villains" kinda function or do not function.
While yes you can just claim these things a few times, but after a couple of times where generic villain beta 2 was captured and fantastically escapes, people will most certainly be fed up about it and it will feel like a bad joke, which isn't fun for either side. We also have a lot of people that wouldn't allow that for various reasons. This isn't necessarily wrong either, Cause as a hero if you can not actually take down the bad guys, why bother right? just saying its part of why recycling happens SO much. Again, finding the balance is hard.
SL2 is a PVP game that tries to be an RP. SL2 had this identity crisis for a long while now, which is mostly because a lot of vocal people simply enjoy the PVP and want it to be balanced. But alot of actual RP mechanics are therefore pretty underdeveloped.
SL2 allows you to mass-produce characters and mechanically max them easily in 3 days, some people can do it faster.
Death has no mechanical consequences, making it very easy to just jump in with a new character at the exact same powerlevel. This can be used and has been used in the past for producing an endless slew of faceless villains AND heroes and I personally hate that. People just recycle untill they win and then that character is usually just repurposed again into something else a week later.
People see the progression system nowadays as a hurdle to RP, not a part of it and want it removed or made even more obsolete. And I can fully understand that sentiment. Its so easy to do that it might as well not exist.
This all just adds to the way how people play certain characters, cause its always just a "Eh, I can just repurpose real quick, or regrind in 2 days, I just die here!" which is kinda sad from a RP perspective and takes alot of impact away, cause people let go of said characters way to easily.
It is disheartening, but characters get created with that mindset from the get go and are played way more risky cause there is no real consequence. Go bright, die quick, prepare your next character you wanna repurpose this one into ion this "life", die in some random event.
Of course not everyone does it, and many many people extremely value their character's RP and Story and will be more than just careful. I just think the way antagonism works in SL2, is very very much attached to the way the games RP/Progression system works. And I will stand by it, but I think the RP would drastically improve if more time has to go into a single character and if consequences for dying were alot harsher. It might slow down new characters, but people will think twice and thrice on how they want to play them and the characters will stay around much longer, giving alot more time for other people to get to know them and get attached to them or get to properly hate them. It will also increase a persons active time on said character, making them feel less shallow by default cause you are just on that character more. Even the best roleplays appear as Shallow at times on characters cause they just spread their time to thin on many different alts.
There are GOOD reasons why pretty much every RP game out there does NOT allow Alts on a person who plays a Leading figure role, or one tops.
This might be your opinion, but from personal experience.. I think Soul is more than just a little right. I find it good that you have that perspective because its way more friendly overall, but the reality is that there are many people here that take ANY form of IC antagonism Personal OOCly. And not just a little.
Its not even about assaults. People will then start to actually go on a rampage OOCly, begin to Metagame, start witchhunts over discord, lie etc.
Some People do NOT take lightly to the prospect that someone in an RP game could have something against them, or targets them for one reason or another, even if its 100% justified with RP.
This of course also translates to how such things are received. I do not know if you ever played a Bandit type of character or something, or have seen how Saw usually handles these things...But very often, people even at the first sign of it at that character get very offended OOCly. Will begrudgingly say "Yeah fine! Rp is RP!", and throw snippy and snarky comments at the "offenders" OOCly and ICly during the whole thing. Making it feel super awkward on the "offenders" side cause...Believe it or not, they usually do it to provide OTHERS with a good time and not elevate themselves. Or well, have a scene thats fun on either side. Things like that? Are fun for neither.
People also like hiding behind rules, which is the most fun thing in a RP scene and I really think needs to be looked at, even though I get why it is the way it is.
People are immortal, because they can just OOCly say "Nah only danger level 1!". Their character ICly though? Will be snappy, make jokes, shrug their shoulders, or be in absolutely no peril at all and ignore all you do. Sure you could get an admin to handle this and force raise the level but...They are neither always there nor do you as a player think the need to do so, because that person clearly doesn't care about that roleplay. Or they do, but only so they can make fun of the other side, while being protected by rules. And having to build a whole case for the admins to just slightly raise the danger level they probably shrug off aswell, is not worth it. Nor is it fun.
So nah, people will give consent, and then be excuse my wording be bitches about it, or it will generally be treated as a joke...Which in part I get OOCly given how Fodder Villains are really just...Kind of a joke. But hey, its still better that pure staleness, imo. And any other form of Villains just do not work. Maybe in a leader position, but outside of that? tough luck.
In a perfect world you would probably be right, but I at least have made different expereinces.
But you also see people rather repurpose the character instead of going through "one day jail" (which usually is not that) because RP logic feels pretty iffy if people HAVE to let you go. Its the "no consequences make Timmy dull boy"-thing, this goes both ways. People that capture them get fed up they have to do it over and over again, and the people getting captured are just like "At some point, my character should either be executed or he would learn...Or be locked up for good". besides it's difficult to RP with a character that has ANY sort of mark on them as most people flat-out nazi-deny interactions with you making it just more convenient to be someone else.
Not saying that this is good or bad. Its just how it is and the way the game supports most mechanically and with the communities Rp mentality. Just how "Fodder-Villains" kinda function or do not function.
While yes you can just claim these things a few times, but after a couple of times where generic villain beta 2 was captured and fantastically escapes, people will most certainly be fed up about it and it will feel like a bad joke, which isn't fun for either side. We also have a lot of people that wouldn't allow that for various reasons. This isn't necessarily wrong either, Cause as a hero if you can not actually take down the bad guys, why bother right? just saying its part of why recycling happens SO much. Again, finding the balance is hard.
SL2 is a PVP game that tries to be an RP. SL2 had this identity crisis for a long while now, which is mostly because a lot of vocal people simply enjoy the PVP and want it to be balanced. But alot of actual RP mechanics are therefore pretty underdeveloped.
SL2 allows you to mass-produce characters and mechanically max them easily in 3 days, some people can do it faster.
Death has no mechanical consequences, making it very easy to just jump in with a new character at the exact same powerlevel. This can be used and has been used in the past for producing an endless slew of faceless villains AND heroes and I personally hate that. People just recycle untill they win and then that character is usually just repurposed again into something else a week later.
People see the progression system nowadays as a hurdle to RP, not a part of it and want it removed or made even more obsolete. And I can fully understand that sentiment. Its so easy to do that it might as well not exist.
This all just adds to the way how people play certain characters, cause its always just a "Eh, I can just repurpose real quick, or regrind in 2 days, I just die here!" which is kinda sad from a RP perspective and takes alot of impact away, cause people let go of said characters way to easily.
It is disheartening, but characters get created with that mindset from the get go and are played way more risky cause there is no real consequence. Go bright, die quick, prepare your next character you wanna repurpose this one into ion this "life", die in some random event.
Of course not everyone does it, and many many people extremely value their character's RP and Story and will be more than just careful. I just think the way antagonism works in SL2, is very very much attached to the way the games RP/Progression system works. And I will stand by it, but I think the RP would drastically improve if more time has to go into a single character and if consequences for dying were alot harsher. It might slow down new characters, but people will think twice and thrice on how they want to play them and the characters will stay around much longer, giving alot more time for other people to get to know them and get attached to them or get to properly hate them. It will also increase a persons active time on said character, making them feel less shallow by default cause you are just on that character more. Even the best roleplays appear as Shallow at times on characters cause they just spread their time to thin on many different alts.
There are GOOD reasons why pretty much every RP game out there does NOT allow Alts on a person who plays a Leading figure role, or one tops.
Quote:The thing is, I just don't think you're right about the first part or that any of the last bit is any actual problem.
On attacking people: The only accusations I've seen about these sorts of conflicts being frivolous or bullying generally come when someone has interacted with more than one character from the same player who attack either the same character or more than one character from the same player. In these cases, it usually boils down to the problem of the relatively small community and the fact that people who play one character who is willing to fight someone are usually willing to play a second in reasonably quick succession and there being few spheres of players who are around reasonably often enough to attack. If those sorts of comments are levelled at someone, it's a sign to maybe take a break with that sort of problem causing or at least in that general geographic location. And attacking inactive people is generally worth getting ignored. Those people weren't around or doing anything to begin with. I only vaguely know of this happening but if your complaint is that nobody responded to it then I would ask who they were supposed to respond to.
On consent: Just ask. If the person wants to roleplay with you and you want to roleplay with the person then they will say yes. If they don't and you for some reason still want to roleplay with that person, reflect on why you feel you should be allowed to. Is it for them? I don't understand this odd sentiment everyone seems to have about conflict and consent. Anyone worth being around is usually open to having something happen to or against their character. If you feel like they don't like you in general then I would again ask why you feel you should be allowed to do anything to their character.
This might be your opinion, but from personal experience.. I think Soul is more than just a little right. I find it good that you have that perspective because its way more friendly overall, but the reality is that there are many people here that take ANY form of IC antagonism Personal OOCly. And not just a little.
Its not even about assaults. People will then start to actually go on a rampage OOCly, begin to Metagame, start witchhunts over discord, lie etc.
Some People do NOT take lightly to the prospect that someone in an RP game could have something against them, or targets them for one reason or another, even if its 100% justified with RP.
This of course also translates to how such things are received. I do not know if you ever played a Bandit type of character or something, or have seen how Saw usually handles these things...But very often, people even at the first sign of it at that character get very offended OOCly. Will begrudgingly say "Yeah fine! Rp is RP!", and throw snippy and snarky comments at the "offenders" OOCly and ICly during the whole thing. Making it feel super awkward on the "offenders" side cause...Believe it or not, they usually do it to provide OTHERS with a good time and not elevate themselves. Or well, have a scene thats fun on either side. Things like that? Are fun for neither.
People also like hiding behind rules, which is the most fun thing in a RP scene and I really think needs to be looked at, even though I get why it is the way it is.
People are immortal, because they can just OOCly say "Nah only danger level 1!". Their character ICly though? Will be snappy, make jokes, shrug their shoulders, or be in absolutely no peril at all and ignore all you do. Sure you could get an admin to handle this and force raise the level but...They are neither always there nor do you as a player think the need to do so, because that person clearly doesn't care about that roleplay. Or they do, but only so they can make fun of the other side, while being protected by rules. And having to build a whole case for the admins to just slightly raise the danger level they probably shrug off aswell, is not worth it. Nor is it fun.
So nah, people will give consent, and then be excuse my wording be bitches about it, or it will generally be treated as a joke...Which in part I get OOCly given how Fodder Villains are really just...Kind of a joke. But hey, its still better that pure staleness, imo. And any other form of Villains just do not work. Maybe in a leader position, but outside of that? tough luck.
In a perfect world you would probably be right, but I at least have made different expereinces.