[caliaca]

You yourself said they didn't work off eachother, it doesn't matter which works off which. Either way, it's getting heavily off topic. GG and Endurance DO work together, as was my original point. As for saying 'it's not a buff', I was talking exclusively in the context of the original post, IE Sweet Leaf. The whips not lowering charm is all well and good on lovely face and other sources of charm, but using Sweet Leaf really just isn't good even in that context. You're 100000% better off using any of the other sources of charm. They're not particularly rare unless you're a non-papilion corrupted, and even then you can get something from your class.

So does fortitude and pain Tol and the other stuff work after testing?

Right, the strength of Sweet Leaf is not lowering charm not the charm itself.

I'd recommend trying the whip build in some 1v1s as a tanky character. It is very strong.