[Ranylyn]

Nuclear » Mon Nov 17, 2014 12:07 pm[/url]"]Will you asshats take your off-topic bullshit elsewhere?

Whoa there. You could have just asked us to make a new thread, but instead you jumped straight to the flaming. I'm not sure how I feel about that.

Oh, and for the record, The "off topic" started as a comparison of scenarios. So it WAS on topic, once. So there's that.

Now, onto the subject at hand, I'd have to say that I'm mixed in my response to this; What was the point to buffing To-Hit by changing Blessed, etc. if it can still be invalidated by dodgers? I believe this is what Sderg is trying to say here. The fact that the only defense offered is "BECUZ AUTOHITS" is absurd, and while this can be the case for dealing with these sorts, it really shouldn't be the only method of combating this character archetype, even though I agree with most of Ran's/Dai's points about it being a "one trick pony" and a "glass cannon."

Yes, dodgers thrive on being able to dodge but basically saying anything that isn't an Evoker or any class with a powerful never-miss ability is irrelevant would be exactly the problem that Sderg is attempting to point out, and the solution is to not ruin CEL or dodging but to make it more malleable and fair, to BALANCE it out in accordance with the rest of the game. If its absurd negation of any attempts to hitting them without slumming for SKI and to-hit boosts weren't such a problem, autohits wouldn't have to be so damned prevalent and defacto in the first place. People shouldn't be punished for what they want to play, and neither should certain aspects of the game be so overwhelmingly good either. The whole point is to BALANCE the game, not make it so That > Anything not This.

This is the whole point of counters. It' like a game of rock-paper-scissors. You win some, you lose some. And considering how many things completely and utterly wreck dodgers, it really makes you ask the person who is getting shut down by them... "So... why aren't you covering your main class's weakness with your subclass!?"

People don't usually use autohits because they HAVE to (except in a few extreme cases.) They use autohits because the skills HAPPEN to be autohits. For example, evokers actually get good Skill growth at 30% (Read: Tied with the second best Strength growth available!) They can end up with a good amount of skill. But their spells are all autohits anyways. Kensei attack skills? Last I checked, all autohits, depite them having the second highest skill growth in the game. Just as a few examples.

Anyways, after all those bonuses to hit, Evade got a buff in the form of Afterimage: A trait. Which means you're not sinking that point into stats elsewhere. Why? Because so many things were now giving massive hit bonuses. Older melee characters typically had high faith due to the old Blessed enchantment, and of course, a lot of things were added like Fitting Form or whatever that MG one is called, I forget.

Anyways, many people no longer seem to see the appeal to faith, and deliberately leave it low to game the fact that you're guaranteed a minumum of 3 gains at level up. (This recently came up in OOC.) If these characters rely on accuracy, you see why this could be an issue. It's not so much that dodge needs a nerf, but that Dodge was considered so bad for so long that people stopped caring about their counters.

Lolzytripd » Mon Nov 17, 2014 5:21 am[/url]"]

I don't see why the current set up is stupid, any technique used to multiplicatively increase damage that is a buff on yourself should increase that damage before it is vs enemy resistance, because you charged it, its power was increased right then and there, not on the point of contact with the enemy, Cm, Greaper, Criticals, weakness and resists, and critical% modifiers, ect fall under this.

when an enemy is marked with a technique like absolute death or the tactician one, which is a debuff which multiplicatvely increases damage done to that particular enemy from all sources, now that damage is increased after contact with the enemy so resistance and defense are factored in before the multiplication, is that so damn hard to understand why they are different?

The only reason CM'd invokes do so much is Greaper.

(Will+tome+spell power)*1.3*2.5 which works out to. (will+tome+spellpower)*3.25 ...a close range isenshi get's a multiplier of 4.8

You mentioned Absolute Death, so you've activated my trap card:

I had a character who could expect to do an average of 50 damage with his weapon before enemy defense (used to be 60 but lol blessed nerf.) He was a Kensei so naturally he had AD maxed out. By your logic, He should have done well over 100 damage with an AD'd crit, because 50 x 1.5 x 1.5 - def. However, enemy defense was applied before either effect; if something had 25 def, He'd do 25 x 1.5 x 1.5.

So... why does magic get all the benefits of multipliers and such? Seriously. Don't get me wrong. I love magic. I get butthurt when a game has bad magic (fucking hell, Skyrim you steaming pile of shitting-on-mages) But I also believe in balance, and when one class gets an outright mechanical advantage like this, it's kind of bull.

Unless this was recently changed. I've been maging/ gunning it up because melee got shat on too much