11-19-2014, 11:40 PM
"[url=http://neus-projects.net/viewtopic.php?p=784#p784 Wrote:Ryu-Kazuki » Wed Nov 19, 2014 5:53 pm[/url]"]You'll all have to excuse me, I just got home from a 4 hr drive and need to catch up.
@Ranlyn, please stop using growths as an argument (I'm not trying to be mean, I'm legitimately asking nicely), it's always a class dependant thing and doesn't always offer the best in terms of anything. The tide of combat can easily be shifted based on racials, skills, or anything; stats don't rule the game entirely. Just because someone has good growths doesn't mean anything. You could have the worst growths in the game, but if an amazing racial counter-acted that, it's balanced. Going, "well they shouldn't get any balance because this stat can go above 100%!" isn't an argument, it's just pointing out they're meta for one style of class instead of decent as a race. As for racials being class dependant, that's fine to an extent, but the entire race itself shouldn't be a stereotypical meta; reasons like that are why the races don't get played that often because they either aren't good all around, or aren't pleasing with their abilities. Plus, this is a ability thread, not a growth thread.
I'm sorry, but there's absolutely zero logic in dismissing growths, and an amazing racial won't make up for pathetic stats. Let me offer a class skill vs growth example of why:
Ghosts are largely considered by many to be the definitive "worst" class for their growths alone. However, they also have Wraithguard, which triggers more frequently with high Res and Luc, both of which the ghost has in spades; it's tied for the highest Luc growth on any class, and has DOUBLE the second highest Res growths in the game. Most classes don't get that much use out of it if they sub Ghost... but levelling as a ghost could very possibly lead to perfect Wraithguard activation, meaning taking half damage from every single hit. Consider that people want to nerf the Bodyguard because it basically lets you survive one or two extra actions. This is absolutely incredible, which, by your logic, should completely justify levelling as one. But... what else can you even DO? 0% Will, 20% Str? You won't be doing any real damage. You'll effectively be utterly ineffectual, offensively.
You may argue I'm putting too much stock in stats. My counterargument is "Play a level 28 evoker with 12 will who kills things faster with punches than with Sear, and tell me how that goes." I've only ever gotten 5 characters (Out of over 50 remakes/ etc across 6 accounts) past 40 because most of mine are so RNG screwed as to be completely unplayable unless utterly min/maxed. Sure, a Shaitan Evoker can get 75% will. That seems okay on paper. But that's still a 1/4 chance to miss. As such, it's a terrible choice to consider for a caster as opposed to Karaten/Zeran/Wyverntouched/Lich. Speaking of lich, why do people PLAY lich? That Will growth. The HP/FP trade off is not worth it. It's purely about that Will.
Base stats might make the difference between +3 of a stat at low levels, but a 20% difference in racial growths make the "average" calculated difference +12 at high levels. Dismissing racial growths is like dismissing the class system completely. It's incredibly valid and relevant. Infinitely more so than racial base stats.
I'm not trying to be mean either, and racial skills do make races more diverse, which is wonderful. However, I also really feel that a race's basic overall strength; their build, their brains, etc, are being overlooked in favor of "let's just give things all these amazing bonuses!" After all... a race with 30 in all stats but that can't gain any stats will always be inferior to something with 0 in all stats at level 1, but is guaranteed perfect growths every single level. And it's very much worth factoring in while weighing the pros and cons.
*loud burp*