[Autumn]

A small tweak we could add is a new 3 or 5 sub rank to Starsign talent that adds SR*5 elemental attack scaling for your starsign's respective stat (and maybe take out the WIL scaling idk), if that makes any sense, if people are concerned over Arbalests and other classes losing out on some elemental scaling, which is a fair argument.

[Balthie]

I feel like a non-mage elemental specialist, considering the loss of variety and options, should probably have the above option.
Namely star sign locking in a specific elemental stat, such as mars for fire, as scaling 100% with the stat, as it is now.
Of course 100% scaled str + the 25% from will would be too much, so keeping the notably singular scaling at just 100% is enough I think.
An extra SR* sub rank for that specific starsign is fair enough, sure- my worry is that singular elemental specialists who are non mages will probably suffer a good bit -especially considering what Chaos was saying about elementals not being strictly magic.

Personally, I don't think elemental prowess is tied into magic, so much as it is tied into harnessing elements. It might be common to harness an element (or two) for spells, but you can call upon elements just as easily without casting spells.

I'm not arguing against the 75% to 25% change, as it makes generalist mages more viable.
But a starsign locking in a singular element as it was before keeps it from nerfing elemental specialists, who already lose the advantage of options that generalists would get from this admittedly deserved 75/25 change, I think is fair enough.

There are probably other things to discuss here, and discussion is always appreciated of course.

[Neus]

I think Lolzy has a point in that defensive scaling weapons are the bigger piece of the tank problem. It's not quite on topic but it's probably worth address since it's come up.

Anyone have a list of all the defensive scaling weapons handy? VIT/DEF/RES, and what the scaling is?

[Rendar]

http://sl2.wikia.com/wiki/Item_List_(tabled)#Weapons

Anchor Edge - 50% STR / 30% Vit / 10% FAI
Evil Club - 60% STR / 40% Res
Myth Slayer - 15% STR / 85% RES
Nirvana Replica - 60% STR / 15% DEF / 15% SAN
Vampire Bat - 50% STR / 50% RES
Nighthunt - 30% STR / 30% RES / 40% SKI
Redwing - 40% STR / 50% SKI / 10% VIT
Thornshooter - 30% STR / 40% SKI / 30% DEF
Atlaua's Abaniko - 40% GUI / 40% CEL / 40% VIT
Byakko Tessen - 40% GUI / 40% SKI / 40% VIT
Dagger of Bleeding - 10% STR / 80% GUI / 10% VIT
Tsukikage - 30% VIT / 40% GUI
Boxing Glove - 80% STR / 25%DEF
Hand of the Giant - 80% STR / 15% DEF
Pinchers - 65% STR / 45% VIT
Shredder Replica - 60% STR / 15% VIT / 15% SAN
Tenderizers - 90% STR / 15% VIT
Corvis Cannon - 45% SKI / 30% RES
Seed Sniper - 100% SKI / 20% DEF
Yin - 80% SKI / 10% RES
Deadly Smile - 25% STR / 50% WIL / 25% RES
Fellgrant Drinker - 75% STR / 25% VIT
Impaler - 90% STR / 10% VIT
Soulstealer - 60% STR / 20% RES / 20% WIL
Bloody Fang - 90% STR / 10% VIT
Crystal Blade - 70% STR / 30% DEF
Ensui - 50% STR / 50% VIT
Eresh - 60% STR / 40% RES
Kirosh - 50% STR / 50% RES
River Sword - 50% STR / 50% VIT
Spectre Sword - 70% STR / 30% RES
Blacksand - 60% WIL / 60% DEF
Blackmount - 50% WIL / 60% DEF
Blackmeteor - 70% WIL / 30% DEF
Desert Wind - 35% WIL / 35% DEF / 35% CEL
Kigal Replica - 60% WIL / 15% RES / 15% SAN


That should be it @Neus

[Reikou]

edit: Ninja'd by Rendar.
Edit 2: Theres also:

Hymn 60 wil 60 res
Hymnta 50 wil 60 res
Hymntaturych 70 wil 30 res
Well 60 wil 60 vit
Wellweg 50 will 60 vit
wellwegwet 70 will 30 vit

[catabur]

Dev, derailing my own thread. I can't believe it.

What started out as trying to make mages seem a little bit better compared to 6 FP swift crystal rose spam or arbalest "knock you down and do 500 fire damage to you" has turned into something else altogether. While I don't think that a weapon that compliments a character's build (something common in all build) is the sole problem with tank mages. I believe it has something to do with how useless evade is compared to being a tank. Being able to dodge basic attacks doesn't compare to the many autohits that are out there.

This was for helping mages actually want to take more WIL instead of just getting it for "Exceptional Will" and calling it a day.

[Lolzytripd]

Dev, derailing my own thread. I can't believe it.

What started out as trying to make mages seem a little bit better compared to 6 FP swift crystal rose spam or arbalest "knock you down and do 500 fire damage to you" has turned into something else altogether. While I don't think that a weapon that compliments a character's build (something common in all build) is the sole problem with tank mages. I believe it has something to do with how useless evade is compared to being a tank. Being able to dodge basic attacks doesn't compare to the many autohits that are out there.

This was for helping mages actually want to take more WIL instead of just getting it for "Exceptional Will" and calling it a day.

Checking to see if this thread was about comparing mages with martials elemental wise......

1/4th of WILL added to all elemental attacks.

It'd give Mages a reason to actually have higher WIL. I was told this was suggested before, but I ain't got a clue on what the outcome was.

and nope, its just about making willpower a worthwhile stat.


My suggestion is changing tome scalings

1* tomes scale 90% will 30% element

3* tomes scale at 70/40

6* at 80/20

Fan tomes
from 50/50/50 to

70 will 40/40 element.

[catabur]

This was for helping mages actually want to take more WIL instead of just getting it for "Exceptional Will" and calling it a day.

Checking to see if this thread was about comparing mages with martials elemental wise......

1/4th of WILL added to all elemental attacks.

It'd give Mages a reason to actually have higher WIL. I was told this was suggested before, but I ain't got a clue on what the outcome was.

and nope, its just about making willpower a worthwhile stat.

Nonetheless, it's no excuse to go off-topic. If you want to offer a suggestion, take it to your own thread. Or else this one will get bogged down and forgotten, despite the large amount of support for it.

[Chaos]

I'm gonna have to echo catabur here: All of this talk about defensive weapon scalings has very little to do with a topic about integrating WIL into Elemental ATK. (It's not really about slapping tank builds either, though it's a side note in one suggestion i've pitched)

If the discussion about defensive scalings needs to continue, it should be done in its own thread.

[Neus]

Maybe, but it's more useful to me for everything to be here, since these changes will likely take place at the same time.