[Jay]

Ryu-Kazuki » Sun Feb 15, 2015 9:41 pm[/url]"]

And as steep as the skill pool formula is currently, I don't see a major issue if racial skills are a given.

Play a Vampire a little more often, check their racials again, and then come back and say that. Those skills definitely should not be a given.

Why wouldn't they be a given? I'll go ahead and ignore the snide comment. But yes, I do have a vampire. Their skills make use of a blood-based system that should be a given. And if those racials are as imbalanced as you claim, then that's room for balancing what should be a given.

[Grandpa]

Honestly, if you are X race, you should be able to use all of their skills without spending a skill slot to do so. They aren't skills, they're something that the race has as a whole. Just calling them "Racial skills" doesn't change anything.

Anyway, I'd still like to see at least some of these racial changes added (Along with allowing all races the use of their skills without skill slots), if adding all of them is for some reason out of the question.

[Rendar]

Anything that is 'racial' shouldn't cost points to equip. If it's a thing like poison bite, which all Wyverntouched should know how to do/not suddenly be unable to do...

[MegaBlues]

If knowing how to do something was what skill slots were based off of, then the system wouldn't be in place.

"I'm a mage, but I suddenly forgot how to throw fireballs for a minute. Whoops."

Common sense and balance don't often coincide.

[Ryu-Kazuki]

My comment wasn't snide in the slightest, I was being entirely serious. Play a Vampire, actually use their skills, and consider the effects in combat before making a bold statement about them not being more powerful than other racials. If you can't do that without acting like my disagreement is an attack in some manner, than please just don't respond, because it provides no credible argument on your end.

Vampires already get more skills than any other race, which come with great and powerful benefits compared to others. There should be some form of drawback other than oh man I lose -2 to certain stats for not having X Essence if you want them for free.

On the flip slide, what Blues said is true about Common Sense and balance, but then again, nothing in the game says any skill is common sense to any race. You may as well for all we know lore wise, have to actually learn those skills, hence why they may take up a skill slot (fuck if I know, it's just a statement, ask Dev if you disagree). But considering some later skills that you obtain through Trait Points, like Brighter Darkness, and the Lich skills; I assume not every racial is innate to them at birth.

[Rendar]

"Every racial is innate to them"

Brighter Darkness is literally there to encourage edge-lord vampires who aren't "As bad as they seem! We were forced into this!" etc.

Lich skills are them picking things up, not them innately knowing it.

Does a human have to equip a skill IRL to bite someone? Not really. THEY JUST FUCKING BITE SOMEONE BECAUSE THEY HAVE TEETH AND CAN DO IT. Saying that Wyverntouched shouldn't get poison bite because it 'isn't something they know innately' is dumb.

[Sarinpa1]

I too am on the ship of BALANCE vs Realism

(aka yes please keep it equippable thing. )

[Jay]

Ryu-Kazuki » Sun Feb 15, 2015 11:35 pm[/url]"]My comment wasn't snide in the slightest, I was being entirely serious. Play a Vampire, actually use their skills, and consider the effects in combat before making a bold statement about them not being more powerful than other racials. If you can't do that without acting like my disagreement is an attack in some manner, than please just don't respond, because it provides no credible argument on your end.

What..? I said vampire racials aren't more powerful? Anyway, I don't think it's very smart to keep on with this. But do yourself a favor and stop assuming/claiming actions I do or don't do.

Vampires already get more skills than any other race, which come with great and powerful benefits compared to others. There should be some form of drawback other than oh man I lose -2 to certain stats for not having X Essence if you want them for free.

That's an issue that should be entirely separate from every race receiving their natural racials. Uhh.. where is it..

And if those racials are as imbalanced as you claim, then that's room for balancing what should be a given.

Meaning, feel free to suggest a balanced 'drawback' and explain in detail why vampires will suddenly dominate everything else with this suggestion.

On the flip slide, what Blues said is true about Common Sense and balance, but then again, nothing in the game says any skill is common sense to any race. You may as well for all we know lore wise, have to actually learn those skills, hence why they may take up a skill slot (fuck if I know, it's just a statement, ask Dev if you disagree). But considering some later skills that you obtain through Trait Points, like Brighter Darkness, and the Lich skills; I assume not every racial is innate to them at birth.

What? Anyway, common sense and balance can coincide in this case. It's just a matter of implementation and nit-picking which race benefits /too/ much compared to others. There will always be scenarios where one race is nearly always better than the other as you can see currently (and I'm not just talking about growths). But when it comes to vampires and this change? They're gaining more strategic options that makes them drop whatever worked for them previously.

[Neus]

As others have pointed out, it's pretty much solely a balance related thing. One of the trade-offs some of the more 'overloaded' races have is that in order to fully utilize their racial bonuses, they have to use skill slots.

[Jay]

Neus » Mon Feb 16, 2015 4:56 am[/url]"]As others have pointed out, it's pretty much solely a balance related thing. One of the trade-offs some of the more 'overloaded' races have is that in order to fully utilize their racial bonuses, they have to use skill slots.

There are subtle examples such as Corbies having four extremely useful skills that don't require slots, while a wyventouched have to slot absorb poison or poison bite. The former definitely is passive worthy. It'd be nice to see all of these skills reassessed regardless. Overall, I figure if balance is restricting what people note as 'realism', it wouldn't be far-fetched to balance 'overloaded' races and allow all of them to naturally have their racials.