[Chaos]

Rendar » Tue Nov 17, 2015 12:18 am[/url]"]Also saying that "KNOCK DOWN IS THE ONE COUNTER TO DODGE" is literally the single most hilarious thing I have heard all day.

"A counter that either cripples them or completely disables them." =/= "The one and only counter."

Anyone who pays attention to Evade knows that hit boosts can combat the dodge screwery. Get the corn out of your ears.

[Neus]

A few different ideas on Turnover. Not necessarily as a collective change but as different ideas to change it.

1) Having the KD only apply if you turn them over from behind (so you're dropping them on their head).
2) Turnover only knocks down if you turn them over onto something, like a rock, a trap, stuff like that.
3) KD becoming a luck-based status chance.

[Rendar]

Knockdown in general becoming a luck-based status effect... or just for Turnover?

I kind of like the idea of Turnover applying Knockdown if you smash them into a rock, trap, or other person. Though, the first seems the most 'reasonable' to still apply.. but would still give a few issues so. Idk.

[MegaBlues]

1- A good idea, but it would make it so that only using double-turnover would be effective. also if you're flipping them in an arc it really doesnt matter if it's from the front or the back but that's not important

2- This would be interesting, definitely. It would make object-creation skills more useful. Perhaps if Turnover had special effects as well, depending on whether you dropped them on some flowers or a bomb.

3- Sort of iffy. What would the chance be based on? Would it be based purely on rank, or also on some sort of stats?

[Soapy]

Dense Thunder has all the same problems as Turnover, except you can't prevent it by putting the enemy's back to a solid object.

The Ki cost isn't a big deal at all, since you get that much every round (and the enemy should have On Guard anyway).


And Cutthroat is still just about as bad as both of these.

[Chaos]

#1 and #2 sound like good answers, though I'd personally go with #1.

Soapy » Tue Nov 17, 2015 5:49 pm[/url]"]Dense Thunder has all the same problems as Turnover, except you can't prevent it by putting the enemy's back to a solid object.

The Ki cost isn't a big deal at all, since you get that much every round (and the enemy should have On Guard anyway).


And Cutthroat is still just about as bad as both of these.

A promoted class skill that requires adjacent placement as well as a Ki cost isn't quite in the same tier as Turnover. Perhaps getting rid of the Ki cost reduction (when used on a opponent not facing you) could help, but I'd rather look to see if Ki generation is too strong before nerfing DT's Ki effect entirely.

Cutthroat not only requires you to face the enemy's backside (which is impossible if they're parking their ass where you can't slip behind them), but it also requires a hit check, which, unless Cutthroat is at Rank 5, receives a penalty. Oh, and you need to sink an SP into Break Down to make the Knockdown happen.... assuming you land a Critical Hit via Cutthroat. Performing this KD consistently requires a backstabbing build. That being said, there's really no reason to nerf Cutthroat's KD factor.

[Zakizo]

Personally I would prefer seeing a hit check slapped on it, with the skill still hitting if it "misses," but failing to apply knockdown (I'm not sure if this is what Dev meant by a "luck-based status chance&quot. On the other hand, from the ideas Dev put forward, the first looks the most appealing to me.