[Daisuke]

There are a bunch of issues with it actually. One class having an ability to counter it doesn't suddenly make it okay (especially since you're comparing a really strong class to it, it's basically "well this OP can deal with that being OP so everyone should just use this 1 specific class to counter it&quot
Because on top of free what's basically 50% physical damage reduction, they get their normal equipment perks AND astral aegis. That's far from "zero issues".
Just consider the fact that even if you got rid of that skill, Grand Summoners are still really strong.

So I agree with individual installs having a cooldown and the resists should also come with a bigger weakness or at least be tuned down when installed (similar to how 777 is weaker when installed)

[Joseph Jostar]

I'm hesitant about an Install cooldown myself, but that might just be because one of my characters is Install: The Game and can only icly use a single youkai. Either way, Drowned Woman's install-passive is absolutely ridiculous as it stands. Especially compared to some of the others: 10% damage vampirism, +5 DEF/Crit Evade, half damage from three of the most common physical damage types simultaneously. Any of those stand out in particular?

I do like the thought of the fear/water hesitation personally, since it's thematically appropriate, an interesting type of weakness and water isn't an especially common damage type to start with, though Fear probably wouldn't have much effect on Summoners since all magic is autohit and they summon anyway.

[Grandpa]

I would rather one of the nerfs than a cooldown. A cooldown on installing would actually kind of kill a lot of characters. A nerf wouldn't. On another note.

I would just like to put it out there, that Null Shell crits will kick an installed
Youkai right back to the Ether from whence it came. Gunners are already
the scissors to the Summoner's paper. I see ~zero issue~ with the way it
works now. The only problem with Grand Summoner is the crazy amount
of sheer power their individual Youkai can reach.

This doesn't happen. You can't uninstall a youkai with nullshells. Only summoned, physical youkai.

[LadyLightning]

Interference Shells unsummon Youkai on the field.
Null Shells dispel buffs on your opponent. Installed
Youkai are buffs, complete with an icon below your
portrait.

[Lolzytripd]

have you tested?

[Ranylyn]

If a cooldown on install is implemented, I second "make it individual youkai only." A lot of characters sub GS for evoking/installs and never actually summon, which would be completely and utterly slaughtered by this suggestion. Especially for times where you absolutely 100% need certain resists (Example: Elf surrounded by spectres while grabbed by a corpse hand. I don't care if you have Vampiric Legume in your -stock-, you WILL be slaughtered by those stacked weaknesses unless you install the damn thing for some darkness resist!)

Doubly so if we use the utterly absurd suggestion of "can't regen FP" in the meanwhile (I mean holy freaking hell why is literally any time anyone ever brings up something to nerf about summoners, there's always someone trying to completely remove FP regen? Play a GS without Cracked Mirror + Absorb Ether for one freaking day. Not in PVP. LEVEL as the damn thing, on a non-lich because of food percentages. I FREAKING DARE YOU. If you ever suggest making FP unable to regen after that, then you're simply not right in the head. End of story. Non negotiable.)


My own suggestion: Just add a weakness at rank 3 to balance it. I vote lightning or wind. Alternatively, lower the resists from 50% to 30%; still high enough to be useful, but still easier to deal with.

[Raigen.Convict]

The problem is not every person can dispell youkai, not everyone's a mage, drowned woman is the answer to melee based characters pretty easily, PLUS her silence shuts down mages entirely...So really in order to take down drowned woman you have to be a gunner or be using a weapon that uses an element in place of blunt slash or peirce.

[Ryu-Kazuki]

That silence will be in effect even if you don't summon the youkai as long as you use Evoke-Actives. Installing her is just a defense mechanism, that's it. It can easily be ignored through elemental means.

[LadyLightning]

Mhm. Duelists are simply forced to use Lau d'Ela or
suffer reduced damage. Drowned Woman is literally
not a balance problem. This whole thread is silly.

[Rendar]

Uh. Okay so. Lets use archers for instance. They have 1 damage type, UNLESS they specialize their bow to deal, specifically, with Drowned Woman. In which case it does either Fire or Light damage. Which is .highly. predictable, so if you know you're going against an arbalest, simply wear a spirit mirror, fire and light resist. Not like you don't already get a good headstart on both of those because you're a summoner.

Duelist's get Lau D'ela, which is a dark type weapon that most duelists won't take because of how costly it is and because it's only really useful against elves who don't cover up their weakness ™. Verglas have no way around it unless they're WILL verglas, which suck ass anyways. Rogues? Even less so. Black Knights? Only thing they got to take that out is their knew CRESCENT ROOKU which is wind damage and spear only. Or they use Board Shaker which is .extremely. costly.