[Poptartu]

Since this is the topic for it i'll post here. The waiting till the second turn to be able to skip doesn't even fix any of the issues, it does however, make anything that likes to skip and draw in dumb monsters unable to do that without hitting end turn. I absolutely hate this appalling change. I, don't even know how to describe how much this doesn't help anything and only inhibits PvE.

To elaborate. To grind how I used to. I now spend my first turn hitting END TURN and ignoring 7 momentum.

Also have to wonder if this kills people who spent a bunch of skill points in cel boosting skills, and now don't even benefit from them wholey. It's not like you can prebuff before the battle to enter with a your total cel, and it could drop after that anyways. Anyone who boosts up for the last bit of their stats (GHOSTS, HEXERS) just got a kick in the teeth for playing those classes. It's not terrible but. Ghosts are all about that turn around, not that it should specifically be only because double turning, but it's also super rewarding when you get to do it. I dunno. There's got to be better fixes. Like, maybe an active turn order bar so if they get faster then you it'll reflect it, like see the next turn's order queued up, that way you atleast get a warning.

[Nanovelich]

There's got to be better fixes. Like, maybe an active turn order bar so if they get faster then you it'll reflect it, like see the next turn's order queued up, that way you atleast get a warning.

That's a warning far too late when it would only happen after you had taken your actions for that round 90% of the time, since they had to be after you in turn order previously to execute the double turn. That doesn't fix anything either and serves only to make you more aware that, "You're about to get screwed."


But yes, the no Skip on round 1 affecting PvE was my concern with that change and why I pointed out that it doesn't help its intended target. I've also been annoyed by it while grinding, but I didn't want to be the one to bring it up.

[Neus]

I just wanted to say that in the hotfix that's live, the game should be using only the base stat for turn order. Let me know what your feedback on the experimental change is.

[Autumn]

Yeah I just went through testing on it and it doesn't seem that the talent for Initiative really applies, also it ends up being really weird as a 42 base CEL vampire is able to outspeed a 42 base CEL Papilion every time, I think the previous setup we had seemed to work well.



But really the important matter is that initiative's CEL doesn't count, tested vs a vampire without initiative against my papilion with initiative.

[Sawrock]

I like it.

[Snake]

It's working as intended. And nobody can outspeed a Quickdraw user anymore. Thank god!

[Autumn]

After quite a bit of testing, it seems I cant outspeed PvE mobs on most of my high CEL characters anymore, unless they've super dedicated, I actually preferred the change JUST before this one, that one actually worked on Rising Game too I think.

I think total CEL out of battle is a good enough adjustment, its not like you can change your equipment in battle.

[Snake]

True, having the same issue with turn order. It seems to be quite binary now, because most of one's CEL can also come from Aptitude, and this one seems to be ignored on turn order, Vampire's bonuses, Initiative and Quickdraw's turn order passive (apparently?).

If we're reverting back, I think Rising Game shouldn't be affected by this for 'reasons'.

Mostly the cases of double turning are pretty fitting for a Ghost's thematic, and also rare, since this only happens often when the Ghost is about to die, and Rising Game gives them an 'oompf' to try and subvert the terrible situation stacked against them.

And this seems even more needed now that Ghost got a massive cooldown on Wraithguard, and Ether Invitation can only be used at red HP, when you're knocking on death's door.
Maybe make it so if Ghost is your main class, Rising Game's CEL can be enabled to count for turn order? I don't know.

That aside, it's way better to just make CEL buffs and debuffs with a set duration (the non-permanent ones, excluding Ki Awoken) 'not' count for turn order CEL. And I've often seen those buffs/debuffs triggering double-turns back then, before those experimental changes:

- Ki Awoken
- Death Knighting
- Eastern Wind
- Synchro Summon
- Encourage
- Install
- Quickness
- Redgull
- Talvyd
- Initiative (If your opponent is technically slower, but Initiative makes them faster for 1 turn)
- Skip (If your opponent is slower, and doesn't use Skip too on his turn)
- Salamander (Eternal Flame's aura)
- Typhur (Eternal Flame's aura)
- Cripple Leg (If you're slower than your enemy)
- Magnet Shell's High Charge (If you're slower than your enemy)
- Vamp Shell's High Charge (If you're slower than your enemy)

And well, that's it for my 'real' feedback. CEL buffs/debuffs are what caused most of the double-turning issues, aside Skip abusing. If they get checked, it won't be needed to make CEL be so binary by turns being decided on base CEL. It kind of kills a lot of other setups the game naturally had, such as Vampire's in-battle speed or Ghosts getting agile as they near death.

[Autumn]

Thats the jist of what the update before turn order was changed to base CEL FYI, after a bit of testing in that update I found the rising game was also effected for some reason, which means that sort of system was more then perfect.