[Sawrock]

I think, by default, all characters should have a chance to proc an evasion on an autohit (which the process of such will be called Reflex for further purposes in this post). If they do, it'd reduce the damage by Scaled CEL/2, as others have stated above. I agree that magic, by default, should not be affected by Reflex. I also believe the following should also happen:

Rogue's Evasion should be changed; it instead should be Main Class Only, and give +30% chance to the dodge proc for Reflex to happen against Physical Attacks only.
Void Assassin's Voidveil's effect should be changed to no longer be main class only.
Void Assassin should gain a new Main Class Only skill that I'll call Magical Reflex (1 rank). It should allow for magic to be affected by Reflex.
Mage should gain a new Main Class Only skill that I'll call Aimed Focus (1 rank). It would give magic (note, not magic damage skills, magic skills) +30% chance to the accuracy proc against Reflex to happen against Magical Attacks only, and reduce Reflex's damage reduction from magic by 10% (which would only work against Void Assassin's Magical Reflex, normally).
Archers should gain a new Main Class Only skill called Aimed Skill (1 rank). It would give non-magic skills +30% chance to the accuracy proc against Reflex to happen.

[Lolzytripd]

I still don't think magic needs to suddenly be immune to evasion just because it becomes available to all dodge builds.

Auto hit skills suffer equally and need to suffer equally spells are just magical autohits.

to be honest single target spells should become hit checks, and aoe's should vs evasion. ffs DnD figured this out decades ago.

[Akame]

Pretty much this. (Since everyone isn't in favor of my trait idea ;_
CEL/2 against autohits and magic, universal for all, available to unarmored and light armor. Not heavy armor.

I think Rogue's evasion should increase the DR of Universal Evasion by 10-15% at max rank, half if not main class. Swaying as well at a higher percentage minus the main class thing, probably. (Since Kunai hates my trigger chance idea ;_

It's important In-Fighter Gi gets a rework as well since everyone's going to have evasion and lesser evasion would never trigger.

This might lead to Wraithguard needing some looking at since evasion and itself can be stacked again fully.

[Autumn]

Pretty much this. (Since everyone isn't in favor of my trait idea ;_
CEL/2 against autohits and magic, universal for all, available to unarmored and light armor. Not heavy armor.

I think Rogue's evasion should increase the DR of Universal Evasion by 10-15% at max rank, half if not main class. Swaying as well at a higher percentage minus the main class thing, probably. (Since Kunai hates my trigger chance idea ;_

It's important In-Fighter Gi gets a rework as well since everyone's going to have evasion and lesser evasion would never trigger.

This might lead to Wraithguard needing some looking at since evasion and itself can be stacked again fully.

I think as long as wraithguard remains stealable, and that cat's mask remains as an accessory to use, this will be fine.

[Chaos]

-Evasion becomes a Trait with a potency of Scaled CEL/2.
-Evasion (at default) does not work against spells.
(Between RES, Magic Armor and Elemental Resistance (ft. Silence), spells face plenty of checks as it stands, compared to physical's DEF and Armor.)
-Void Asssassin could possibly get a Main Class skill that makes Evasion work against magic.
-Evasion's potency is affected by armor: Unarmored gets full bonus, Light Armor gets 50%, Heavy Armor negates.
-Rogue's Evasion skill becomes 'Greater Evasion', adding (+2*Rank)% to Evasion's Potency.


I would like to remind, however, about reduction stacking. As I've said in the Glancing Blows topic, A strong bonus based on Evade isn't an issue, but if it can stack up with a ton of DEF/RES and numerous other damage reductions, it becomes a problem. Which is why I want to say that Evasion and Wraithguard shouldn't be able to proc at the same time. Ideally, if they would both activate, only allow the stronger reduction to go off.

I also want to question about global Evasion and positioning: Would it be a good idea to give a penalty to Evasion if the attacker is 'out of sight'?

[Snake]

Oh yeah. While we're at it, why not make Ogata's Waraji increase the chance of Evasion/Evasion DR by 10% instead of being a 10% physical damage reduction? : )

[Lolzytripd]

Theres no good reason for evasion to not work against spells, spells are not in a weak place against evasion, spells are not in a weak place compared to auto hits, spells are just magical auto hits, there is no reason for them to get speshul treatment.

the only thing seperating magical damage from physical damage is how often it's elemental. I personally think the problem is that there isn't a diminishing returns for people who have enough resists to resist pretty much every element (and that there isn't a mage class focused on stripping resists)

[Fern]

I nearly entirely agree with Slydria here, although I'm highly leaning towards the normal Evasion's reduction being Scaled CEL / 2 by default.

I strongly disagree with the thought of making it an entirely new trait - dodge characters end up taking a lot more traits in comparison to a tank. It's most likely because the latter doesn't have to grab things such as Agile Feet and Afterimage.

If Evasion -really- has to be tied to a trait, I suggest making it come with Afterimage at the very least.

There is certainly things that could get silly with global Evasion, such as Wraithguard. However I don't think there's too many of them. If Wraithguard really becomes a problem with this change, then maybe it could just be changed into an Evasion skill as it was suggested a while ago. And only one would take place, I imagine.

I honestly don't think Rogue's Evasion should increase the change, I really think making it raise the damage reduction you get from activating it is more useful. Rank*2 does sound fine to me. I'm against it entirely negating damage for the reason Slydria mentioned.

I don't see much issue with Ogata's Waraji in this change, to be quite honest. No need to change it, I think.

And lastly, I don't think Evasion should be shutdown by magic spells. If it really has to be destroyed by them, then perhaps making it so Rogue's Evasion lets you proc it on spells would work.

EDIT: I also imagine statuses such as Knocked Down or Guard would still prevent you from triggering Evasion. Maybe Stun, I guess, if it doesn't do that already.

[GameMaster85]

Well, Evasion isn't a bad idea to be global instead of something only rogues can have. CEL is considered a defensive stat that only affects manual hits and other things (excluding scaling). If it's going to be considered into something like Evasion, it should work in tandem with other damage reduction factors.

Lets get a few design facts and or opinions down. Correct me if I'm wrong.

* Since the GR, there has been a design direction to avoid completely nullifying attacks, and at most bringing them down to a number where it still actually is an attack, but the defensive player would need to be hit a lot more times then one that is taking 100 damage a hit. As in, a regular attack that does 0 damage should be rare in an equal fight, unless special circumstances go off. We shouldn't change this.

* Evasion, by laws of war, seems to be a good defense tactic overall, and it shouldn't be something that can be ignored. ALL attacks, unless undodgeable, should be able to be dodged. Unless Dev really wants to stick with the autohits always hitting as design, then okay. But yeah. But if the former, for the love of god do not neglect that one undodgeable spear skill on duelist. Holy hot hell I fear Dev will forget that skill in this update.

* The defensive options of tanking attacks with evasion CAN work together, but don't make them stack as an arbitrary damage reducer. Yeah, sure. You can have defense against a glancing blow, but if your actively trying to evade an attack, your also probably not trying to completely defend yourself. Raw defense shouldn't be as effective for evasion of all types, and should probably be balanced so that it doesn't reach above the first fact.

* AOEs should still be able to be dodged. Unless you want more complications with balance, leave it like that.

* Cobra Dodge was always a very special dodge that just nullified damage if you were looking at it, and then moved you to some random direction. I feel this is less of a reactive dodge and more of just a planned-ahead dodge. In DMC (the thing the class is based off of), you don't usually reactively dodge, you follow a pattern and move to it, like a dance. In fact, I think that word was in one of the descriptions of DH's moveset. However, Cobra has a lot of caveats that follow suit which balances it out a tad.

* Wraithguard is a defensive skill that might get silly with evasion, yeah. Something should be done about that, but I have no idea what. If Evasion becomes global, Wraithguard becomes useless at it's current state. Something something Light Armor perhaps?

That's all I got. I'm not good at this game so feel free to disagree with me. I won't bite.

[Raigen.Convict]

After seeing how hard my judgement blade still hits for with soul chains active vs a 54 res target with a wraithgaurd on top (103 or so) Evasion must affect magic. Period. Most magic classes either have enough elements or damage bonuses with effects that they can push through resistances when properly built for.