[Rendar]

Since this is a war of the races, I would like to make a note at how bad liches are.

They get half HP for 1.5x FP.

300 HP becomes 150
400 FP becomes 600.

If we're following the "Well you lose 50% HP and it's moved to FP instead!" logic.. I guess it works, it just seems a bit silly.

But yeah, Liches get the really short end of the stick unless they take 2-3 TRAITS that give them Teleport Movement, An unresistable akashea damage attack that burns, and life drain. One of these is also gotten by vampires who can lower their weakness and gain light resistance all in the same trait...

To be a good member of your race, you shouldn't be forced to spend 2-3 traits. Just saying.

Also, -10% STR/WIL to anyone standing near you, alongside 20% hesitation at 100% FP is... wow no thanks. Hesitation is a downright .evil. status effect that's on par with STUN if it triggers and forces you to do nothing.

[Ryu-Kazuki]

We could drop the Hesitation to 10% or even just leave it at 5%.

If not Hesitation, Fear might work as a good substitute instead. I'd be pretty intimidated by an angel/demon who might be able to kill me. Just saying.

[Slydria]

Ryu-Kazuki » Sat Nov 15, 2014 4:45 am[/url]"]I like these, other than the HIT reduction. At most it'd be -30 and with people fussing about dodge and Kensei lately it's a bit much. But that's just my opinion.

Also, for the new facing effect, that could be deadly depending on how high their stat is, but that's where I'm on the fence.

Overall these are a lot better and I can't really complain.

Rendar » Sat Nov 15, 2014 4:50 am[/url]"]
Also, -10% STR/WIL to anyone standing near you, alongside 20% hesitation at 100% FP is... wow no thanks. Hesitation is a downright .evil. status effect that's on par with STUN if it triggers and forces you to do nothing.

Here's the thing about Superiority. It has fairly limited range. The reduction to STR/WIL is only for those the Zeran is facing, so only 1 enemy will ever be under it's effect at a time and getting away from that effect really doesn't take much.

The thing about the Hesitation is that it's -only- at 100% FP and the enemy has to also be affected by Superiority (so once again, limited range), so you have to purposefully manage your FP usage and get into position for the chance for the effect to trigger.

I'm open to alternatives to Hesitation but I don't think Fear would work. (Because Superiority already acts similarly to Fear anyway).

[Ryu-Kazuki]

I can understand what you're saying and you've swayed me to your side of that argument.

I'd also like to point out one thing I forgot was Life Drain, which apparently both Liches and Vampires have. So we can't really argue too much about how these new ideas for Zerans would be too dangerous when those two get a bonus on top of their basic skills. Sure Vampires have to equip some stuff, but we still get a bunch of skill slots now.

But yes, I'd really like to see these new suggestions Sly made applied to Zerans.

[Rendar]

"Life Drain" requires a skill slot, you to use a trait, and to be in 1 range. Which is suicide for a lich. It also only deals 10% of the enemies health, almost always in pvp. Heals you for that too, and requires 3 Momentum. It might just be easier to LB it up.

"Arcane Relocation" requires a skill slot and for you to use a trait. It's a useless-useful skill.

[Ryu-Kazuki]

Rendar » Fri Nov 14, 2014 2:38 pm[/url]"]"Life Drain" requires a skill slot, you to use a trait, and to be in 1 range. Which is suicide for a lich. It also only deals 10% of the enemies health, almost always in pvp. Heals you for that too, and requires 3 Momentum. It might just be easier to LB it up.

"Arcane Relocation" requires a skill slot and for you to use a trait. It's a useless-useful skill.

I just want to say. "Hi, I'm a Grand Summoner with Drowned Woman. It's nice to be in 1 range with you."

Sure that doesn't apply for all classes, but not many people would be a melee based Lich.

[Ranylyn]

I'd like to point out that a Zeran's stats are definitely being downplayed and a Vampire's racials are being upplayed.

Zerans are tied for the highest skill growth in the game, with Phenex, Raid Mechs, and Tannites. Out of all those high skill classes, Zerans are also tied for the 3rd highest will in the game. Alongside Raid Mechs. (The other two have less will.) And Zerans can definitely take a hit better than those raid mechs. As such, Zerans make the best Magic Gunners in the entire game. And let's face it; with the spirit hunter, there's been a MASSIVE influx of MGs lately. I'm sure the reason why is obvious.

Yes, a Zeran's racials suck. But their stats more than make up for it, IMO.

As for vamps? Only mages get any noteworthy use from Life Drain, which is good since they never want to use their essence due to the difficulty of landing banquet. And it's very very rare for Lunar Lunatism to actually be worth considering because it puts you back to 0 essence. A tankvamp might get some use out of Silvermists, but from my experiences with tanks, their accuracy tends to get crapped on, which, again, makes it hard to land banquet to replenish that essence. Honestly, their racials are more of a chore than anything else, really.


While I'm in favor of changing Zeran racials to not be literally useless (lol seeing FP) they don't need anything else other than changing that one thing to something else that's minor. Because ttatistically, they're actually kind of awesome. They can hit 100% Skill WITHOUT Legend Authoring, and 100% Will WITH it. I mean really. That's great.

[Ryu-Kazuki]

Zerans and Vampires have the exact same stats. Maybe not growths, but even then they can just as easily get 100% in some stats themselves.

You saying they get both 100% in SKI and WIL is all class dependent which is why it's not so much if a big deal. And no, they need more than "seeing" FP changed. Their effects are lackluster, and have little to no effect for all around combat for classes, like I mentioned earlier in the thread.

Also, Vampires and Liches can also gain bonus skills via traits, Zerans can't. I think that's also a little bit unfair.

Not much point in having stats or being a race if your racial abilities suck and people think the race itself sucks because of the racials. Hell, they're supposed to be proud winners of the Crown of Heaven who teach and guide people, who help them, not snobby jerks who think having horns is cool like everyone either tries to play them as or thinks they are ICly/OOCly, or calling themselves cows and sleeping with everybody they see (this comment was a little unnecessary (though I didn't mention the character in question who does this), but it's still pretty bad when everybody thinks of the females as just big breasted cows).

[Ranylyn]

Are you seriously arguing that base stats are more important than growths? And that the best skill growth in the game is meaningless purely because class dependant?

*sigh* I'm sorry, but I need to leave this thread for my own sanity. No offense. I just absolutely do not agree with that.

[Ryu-Kazuki]

Ranylyn » Sat Nov 15, 2014 10:55 pm[/url]"]Are you seriously arguing that base stats are more important than growths? And that the best skill growth in the game is meaningless purely because class dependant?

*sigh* I'm sorry, but I need to leave this thread for my own sanity. No offense. I just absolutely do not agree with that.

Well let's use the logic of most people against themselves, hm? Who attacks with a tome anyway? Oh wait, WHEN DID A MAGE NEED SKILL? Yes, it's not important if you don't use it. I don't care how high the percentage is, if it doesn't benefit you in any way, it's still useless. If it doesn't do anything for me, it's not going to even be a point of argument.

Before you start talking like you're so smart and that basic logic is a drain on your sanity, think about the usefulness of something and how it actually makes a difference.

Or you could, y'know, not be so dramatic about something that's not even incorrect in the first place and just the basis of a factually supported opinion?