02-02-2015, 06:45 PM
I wasn't using "what if" builds, I was using current builds that are already set in place. Mine is a max of 126% because I don't choose to have a cursed / doomed weapon. You said yourself a lot of Papilions aren't mages, so how would this even be a problem? This doesn't mean I should have to rely on them just to have a chance, otherwise it makes my racial skills pretty shitty and forces me to go Hexer, but that wasn't even the point.
I was doing a comparison between WIL based Papilions, and non-WIL Papilions, and showing you how crippling it would be to anyone who doesn't use WIL. Melee Papilions would be severely undercut, especially if they don't get SKI and LUC, that's the luck of the draw with the formula, but seeing as the formula is already a problem to them, why should they be further stripped of their racial abilities just because people think they're "OP", when they're clearly not.
Yes, I'm fully aware if you recast Invite Insanity on the butterflies, they dispel, I mentioned it in the above post, AND I'm the person who suggested that it be added because of how difficult it was in the past to make their status activate near any enemy. This doesn't alleviate the whole, "may or may not actually activate" situation. So please don't try to use "just waste your M on it again and HOPE it activates a status that they may not be prepared against and might actually do something to them" as an argument.
As for what skills Immunize the statuses. I wasn't talking about a go to that negates them, I'm talking about skills that rid the effect. Technically I miscalculated, all 5 of them can be.
Guiding Light (Blind)
Silent Prayer (which might I add costs 1M) (Silence)
Cleanse Body (Poison, Fear, and Blind)
Steel Mind (Fear, and Charm)
Steel Blood (Poison)
That's all off the top of my head, and that's the current ones we have, more might be added later on for all we know. But here's the thing, those "OP" statuses they do, as I mentioned before, have a max level of 3, THREE. Some of them have a max of 2. Compared to other skills / racials that inflict status effects? That's far from OP. I'll name ONLY the ones that do these five statuses at their max ranks.
Black Bubble (Silence for 3 rounds)
Wretched Oil (Poison lv 30 for 3 rounds)
Fleeing Spectres (Fear for 3 rounds)
Eternal Darkness (Blind for 2 rounds)
Sudden Death (Fear for 2 rounds)
Altera (Blind 2 for rounds)
Pocket Sand (Blind for 2 rounds, once per battle)
Snake Shot (Poison Lv 5 for 3 rounds)
Black Rose (Charm Lv 2 or Blind for 2 rounds, only one per cast)
Drown (Silence for 3 rounds)
Poison Bite (Poison lv 30 for 3 rounds)
Cutthroat (Silence for 2 rounds, 3 rounds if on crit)
Black Bolt (Silence for 2 rounds)
Haunting (Fear for 2 rounds)
Absolute Fear (Fear for 3 rounds, and Silence for 2 rounds)
That's everything I had readily available on my characters. Yes, those are skills, minus Poison Bite. But looking at most of those skills, they're either the same duration, higher, or the same level or higher. They cost more FP, yeah, they cost SP, yeah. The difference in this is how miniscule / easily mitigated / ignorable the statuses of Butterfly Illusions are.
Lv 2 - 3 poison does, what? 5% HP damage? Less? That's pathetic and you can practically ignore that.
Blind? You have Blind Fighting, or if you're a Mage, Kaelensia or have an LB in your party, laugh at it.
Silence? You're not a Mage? Well fuck it and yolo that Papilion.
Fear? People generally ignore fear anyway. Plus, if you're a Mage, this still doesn't affect you.
Charm. Yes, here's the big one. But it's not the reason why this should change. It's entirely based on a level difference, and the main thing it does it just keeps you from attacking for a few turns. Use that time to either prepare something nasty for when it's over, because the instant they hurt you, it's game over. Yandere style.
These are five statuses, with easily curable, immunized, or ignored statuses. They may not land because of Status Infliction vs Status Resistance, or may not even end up as the status you want. In fact, they may not even be a full 20% all the way across the board, who knows how its coded. I hardly see charm inflicted as a status and I'm inclined to believe it's got a lower % chance than the other statuses.
If this is a racial balance thread, why are we trying to strip the Papilions of their racial and make it even less effective than it already is? If anything, right now Papilions suck and stick out as a one trick pony that should have just a tad bit more diversification so it's not Butterfly Spam all the time.
If you could choose to pick what status you wanted prior to detonation? Then yeah, I'd say it's OP. But as for now? It's more like a minor annoyance.
I was doing a comparison between WIL based Papilions, and non-WIL Papilions, and showing you how crippling it would be to anyone who doesn't use WIL. Melee Papilions would be severely undercut, especially if they don't get SKI and LUC, that's the luck of the draw with the formula, but seeing as the formula is already a problem to them, why should they be further stripped of their racial abilities just because people think they're "OP", when they're clearly not.
Yes, I'm fully aware if you recast Invite Insanity on the butterflies, they dispel, I mentioned it in the above post, AND I'm the person who suggested that it be added because of how difficult it was in the past to make their status activate near any enemy. This doesn't alleviate the whole, "may or may not actually activate" situation. So please don't try to use "just waste your M on it again and HOPE it activates a status that they may not be prepared against and might actually do something to them" as an argument.
As for what skills Immunize the statuses. I wasn't talking about a go to that negates them, I'm talking about skills that rid the effect. Technically I miscalculated, all 5 of them can be.
Guiding Light (Blind)
Silent Prayer (which might I add costs 1M) (Silence)
Cleanse Body (Poison, Fear, and Blind)
Steel Mind (Fear, and Charm)
Steel Blood (Poison)
That's all off the top of my head, and that's the current ones we have, more might be added later on for all we know. But here's the thing, those "OP" statuses they do, as I mentioned before, have a max level of 3, THREE. Some of them have a max of 2. Compared to other skills / racials that inflict status effects? That's far from OP. I'll name ONLY the ones that do these five statuses at their max ranks.
Black Bubble (Silence for 3 rounds)
Wretched Oil (Poison lv 30 for 3 rounds)
Fleeing Spectres (Fear for 3 rounds)
Eternal Darkness (Blind for 2 rounds)
Sudden Death (Fear for 2 rounds)
Altera (Blind 2 for rounds)
Pocket Sand (Blind for 2 rounds, once per battle)
Snake Shot (Poison Lv 5 for 3 rounds)
Black Rose (Charm Lv 2 or Blind for 2 rounds, only one per cast)
Drown (Silence for 3 rounds)
Poison Bite (Poison lv 30 for 3 rounds)
Cutthroat (Silence for 2 rounds, 3 rounds if on crit)
Black Bolt (Silence for 2 rounds)
Haunting (Fear for 2 rounds)
Absolute Fear (Fear for 3 rounds, and Silence for 2 rounds)
That's everything I had readily available on my characters. Yes, those are skills, minus Poison Bite. But looking at most of those skills, they're either the same duration, higher, or the same level or higher. They cost more FP, yeah, they cost SP, yeah. The difference in this is how miniscule / easily mitigated / ignorable the statuses of Butterfly Illusions are.
Lv 2 - 3 poison does, what? 5% HP damage? Less? That's pathetic and you can practically ignore that.
Blind? You have Blind Fighting, or if you're a Mage, Kaelensia or have an LB in your party, laugh at it.
Silence? You're not a Mage? Well fuck it and yolo that Papilion.
Fear? People generally ignore fear anyway. Plus, if you're a Mage, this still doesn't affect you.
Charm. Yes, here's the big one. But it's not the reason why this should change. It's entirely based on a level difference, and the main thing it does it just keeps you from attacking for a few turns. Use that time to either prepare something nasty for when it's over, because the instant they hurt you, it's game over. Yandere style.
These are five statuses, with easily curable, immunized, or ignored statuses. They may not land because of Status Infliction vs Status Resistance, or may not even end up as the status you want. In fact, they may not even be a full 20% all the way across the board, who knows how its coded. I hardly see charm inflicted as a status and I'm inclined to believe it's got a lower % chance than the other statuses.
If this is a racial balance thread, why are we trying to strip the Papilions of their racial and make it even less effective than it already is? If anything, right now Papilions suck and stick out as a one trick pony that should have just a tad bit more diversification so it's not Butterfly Spam all the time.
If you could choose to pick what status you wanted prior to detonation? Then yeah, I'd say it's OP. But as for now? It's more like a minor annoyance.
Quote:OOC Devourer Of Souls: I did literally nothing and have never played YGO in my life.
OOC Black Chaos X: OOC Devourer Of Souls: no one activated zera ritual
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Tengen Toppa
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