[Collector]

I don't have much else to say on the topic, but I'm fairly confident that the discussion here illustrates that spirit mirror is in a perfectly fine position as it is. I can only hope dev feels the same.

I did make this, though. Couldn't resist.

[Mewni]

Ah yes, perfectly fine position because yes, sounds logical and perfectly articulated.

[K Peculier]

I'm not sure how a simple balance suggestion deviated from the original post turning to some people lashing out at each other personally with off-the-wall sass.

I would ask both sides either for or against the suggestions to not resort to that. You're better than that.

If you don't agree on something you're free to support your case with facts and evidence of course but don't be immature about it.

[Miller]

This thread certainly went off the rails from an outside view, the main issue with Spirit Mirror is that denying the other player any means of knowing it's there or not completely defeats most of the point of counter play and heavily skews a battles' favor towards whoever ran into it without being aware.

Could you argue that Mysterious should be valuable for these kind of scenarios? Absolutely, although I personally agree on the notion that Spirit Mirror's effect is really powerful for what it does. But part of the issue is when these sort of information denying mechanics are so common place (Mask of Metal) that it becomes frustrating and obnoxious in most scenarios that they occur, especially when Spirit Mirror effectively denies you of 3M (Can be more or less) and potentially damage you in the process of doing so.

"Why not just null or throw the funny rock at it?"
The former is likely due to a lack of good sources and some of the best sources of said nullification already running into the spirit mirror before their null actually goes off (Null Shell); the latter is because throwing Requinite blindly into someone who /MIGHT/ have Spirit Mirror isn't practical.

The whole point is information denial making the item more obnoxious and having the main counter-play be 'I should check if they have a spirit mirror before I use x' puts you at a momentum deficit over your opponent for the cost of a singular accessory slot.

As for Tana's post, I could potentially see Spirit Mirror getting a change that allows it to refresh at some point, but I personally feel like it's current effect compared to most other accessories is already a league ahead of what they have to offer. Maybe a 10* upgrade in the future or something could have something along those lines.

[Mewni]

This thread certainly went off the rails from an outside view, the main issue with Spirit Mirror is that denying the other player any means of knowing it's there or not completely defeats most of the point of counter play and heavily skews a battles' favor towards whoever ran into it without being aware.

Could you argue that Mysterious should be valuable for these kind of scenarios? Absolutely, although I personally agree on the notion that Spirit Mirror's effect is really powerful for what it does. But part of the issue is when these sort of information denying mechanics are so common place (Mask of Metal) that it becomes frustrating and obnoxious in most scenarios that they occur, especially when Spirit Mirror effectively denies you of 3M (Can be more or less) and potentially damage you in the process of doing so.

"Why not just null or throw the funny rock at it?"
The former is likely due to a lack of good sources and some of the best sources of said nullification already running into the spirit mirror before their null actually goes off (Null Shell); the latter is because throwing Requinite blindly into someone who /MIGHT/ have Spirit Mirror isn't practical.

The whole point is information denial making the item more obnoxious and having the main counter-play be 'I should check if they have a spirit mirror before I use x' puts you at a momentum deficit over your opponent for the cost of a singular accessory slot.

As for Tana's post, I could potentially see Spirit Mirror getting a change that allows it to refresh at some point, but I personally feel like it's current effect compared to most other accessories is already a league ahead of what they have to offer. Maybe a 10* upgrade in the future or something could have something along those lines.

Throwing the rock also doesn't really do much, since you won't know if they actually have a mirror or not either way, unless the mirror is the only buff that can be purged on the person, which is extremely rare if it's the case at all, especially at the current state of the game in which you need buffs to even do anything.

That and the fact that, vast majority of the cases projectile users don't want to stay close to their opponent at the end of their turn, spending 3m to get close enough to throw a 3m item to maybe null a effect made by a item that needed no prep at all is a stupidly huge disadvantage.

[Kazzy]

Then clearly the issue isn't Spirit Mirror but Mask of Metal and Mysterious. So lets give those the pipe instead.

[adamkad1]

Then clearly the issue isn't Spirit Mirror but Mask of Metal and Mysterious. So lets give those the pipe instead.

Yeah, why should we let people hide their status effects anyway? Seriously though. Maybe just give it to everyone by default? And add some spell/useable item that reveals a persons stats and buffs/debuffs to you, kinda like a 'detect magic' spell

[Autumn]

Then clearly the issue isn't Spirit Mirror but Mask of Metal and Mysterious. So lets give those the pipe instead.

The issue appears to be how Spirit Mirror interacts with Mask of Metal and Mysterious effects, and is not a direct outlier of mechanics that deny information such as the aforementioned effects. The former of which would be remedied by a visual indicator to Spirit Mirror itself, not directly nerfing its effect or usefulness but instead removing a fair bit of user error or otherwise cheese scenarios wherein you rely upon your opponent being undutiful or forcing them into what are definitively very unfair scenarios.

[Snake]

Well, what if, and hear me, what IF...

Spirit Mirror gets a visual indicator which is well-deserved, but, "Concealment Passives" like Mysterious and Mask of Metal remove all visual indicators from a character such as Narcus, etc?

It'd be fair for everyone like that.

[Sawrock]

spirit mirror only last 2 rounds instead of 10

Add a goblin that eats your mirror after every battle so you have to replace it

make spirit mirror ICly illegal

Add a goblin that makes a “spirit mirror” list. Everyone that uses a spirit mirror gets added to it and can’t partake in the family pizza days

Have Tannite NPCs have dialogue about how they are terrified of mirrors and how they are glad Oniga didn’t use their sand supply to destroy the Tannite archers when invading

Make a big spirit mirror. Too big. Make it reflect Iahsus to destroy it forever

Add a goblin who adds a rule that spirit mirror only works on youkai or black/white spirit users

Make spirit mirror an item belt slot so we can use more than one

Remove bows and guns from the game. They now live where bicycles do

Remove goblins but add a goblin that multiplies when a spirit mirror is used. You can’t remove them and they can only grow in number