[K Peculier]

As Korvara was released, I've seen many opportunities for people to go out of their comfort zone to roleplay a different race or two to instead sticking to arguably still one of the most powerful races in the game.

Glykin has been hit by the nerf-bat multiple times because of how absurd they used to be, yet their popularity has yet to drop and their viability in high-end player pve/pvp has never ceased due to their amazing racial of not being able to be poisoned to counter-act their ginormous HP-pools from a great vit-base.

Unlike beastkin and the other Serpent races who must actively invest into another stat - Sanctity in this case to utilize their patron blood, Glykin has no real incentive to do so outside of a minor HP regeneration increase which caps very quickly at lower investments which encourages no real need to touch it at all.

Because of the above glykins get to ignore a lot of dangerous abilities in the games without any thought - One big example is archer's snake shot and pulling shot combo to inflict KD which is outright disabled due to it being impossible to poison a glykin in the first place, invalidating the entire threat with zero stat investment. Not to mention a large amount of the game's monsters inflict poison as their main unique ability.

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Proposal - Make their poison resistance/immunity tied to the sanctity trait. 

Perhaps at a minimum 50 scaled sanctity they'd obtain their complete poison immunity again similar to how Golden Eyes trait works. Because at that point you really do deserve it for being as close to your god as you can.

Glykins have enjoyed godhood and then their demigod status for too long. They must now live as us mortals do.

[HaTeD]

As Korvara was released, I've seen many opportunities for people to go out of their comfort zone to roleplay a different race or two to instead sticking to arguably still one of the most powerful races in the game.

Glykin has been hit by the nerf-bat multiple times because of how absurd they used to be, yet their popularity has yet to drop and their viability in high-end player pve/pvp has never ceased due to their amazing racial of not being able to be poisoned to counter-act their ginormous HP-pools from a great vit-base.

Unlike beastkin and the other Serpent races who must actively invest into another stat - Sanctity in this case to utilize their patron blood, Glykin has no real incentive to do so outside of a minor HP regeneration increase which caps very quickly at lower investments which encourages no real need to touch it at all.

Because of the above glykins get to ignore a lot of dangerous abilities in the games without any thought - One big example is archer's snake shot and pulling shot combo to inflict KD which is outright disabled due to it being impossible to poison a glykin in the first place, invalidating the entire threat with zero stat investment. Not to mention a large amount of the game's monsters inflict poison as their main unique ability.

---

Proposal - Make their poison resistance/immunity tied to the sanctity trait. 

Perhaps at a minimum 50 scaled sanctity they'd obtain their complete poison immunity again similar to how Golden Eyes trait works. Because at that point you really do deserve it for being as close to your god as you can.

Glykins have enjoyed godhood and then their demigod status for too long. They must now live as us mortals do.

I can't believe you're actually suggesting to change a race to mechanically go against what it was designed todo in lore. Glykin know no impurity and have to actually build two stats already to make use of their passives. At least 18 san to cap 10 hp a turn, but still have only a faith% chance to reduce debuffs on their pc mob that are 3 rounds or over down by 1. Being immune to a combo because you're immune to a status effect hold less ground when I look at something like a shaitan, or even a heron. Poison is too innately strong anyway which makes this seem like a bigger deal than it really should be. Maybe people play glykin because of how utterly bullshit poison playstyles are. 10% max hp dmg with menov potential and then you might have to chase someone down as you lose 15% hp a turn? But nah, fuck glykin for that right?

Golden eyes actually doesnt need 50 san making your comparison completely invaluable if you had such knowledge. In fact, with blind fighting and 12-13 san it makes kaels still immune to blind. This is even LESS allocation than a glykin for their full 10 hp a turn san. Their hp pools are actually virtually the same as other races with a 10-30 difference at most when allocation exact amounts. Why? because they have less strength, and might come out with less hp than other races because they don't have a high str base and won't opt to build it. 

TD;lr Glykins aint gods or demigods, they die just like everyone else just without poison. Poison shouldnt be the goto for everyone to use to kill each other.

[Autumn]

Glykin since their many many many nerfs have been a lot more tame as of recent thankfully, due to their middling defensive stats they are unable to achieve really high numbers on DEF or RES, though I agree vaguely that the straight up poison immunity is a really strong trait they have, and it often makes people decide to use glykin for most builds, even the builds it doesn't fit stat wise, just for safety sake.

The race is very safe, you get a little bit of health regen, you get some decent base stats and you have complete immunity to poison regardless of your SAN being high or low. I don't think that steeping the cost of their immunity is a good idea, especially given that Glykin's racials can scale from 2 stats. But I would like it if Glykin had a downside to playing it, so its not just a better human in most regards.

Even something like a cold/dark weakness, -25% in one or -15% in both probably, could be enough to help balance the race out quite a lot. Make them more susceptible to their lizard heritage or corruption kind of thing, either way it would help set them in line as having a weakness for the boon of poison immunity.

But yes, glykin is good at denying the poison playstyle and should remain that way, but unlike Wyverntouched they do so with minimum investment for no tradeoff. Many people seem to have gripes with poison centered playstyles even though by most regards its actually really balanced, but that avenue shouldn't be closed off because there's a race that is just human but ignores poison + has a little status res.

[sadbot]

I think Glykin is still quite strong for its poison immunity, and can see where the idea is coming from. I don't think that it would be unreasonable to loosely tie the poison immunity to san, say 50% + half san resistance so you're not gonna be completely immune for free unless you invest a little in san at least.

[PantherPrincess]

I have to disagree on this one. I don't think it's healthy to nerf a race that has been hammered a couple of times already just because Wyverntouched came up as a topic alongside them. I'm with Autumn and Hated on this one. Instead I'd rather see Wyverntouched get some buffs so they don't have to build an obscene amount of sanctity to be even remotely useful. Glykin is a lot more tame than it used to be and the comparison to Kaelansians falls rather flat considering no they do not need sanctity or even much of it to utilize their racials. Countering a fighting style based off poison from one race isn't really groundbreaking. The chance to lower negative status effects is based on faith which not everyone will build. All in all you only really get a slight HP regen buff and immunity to poison for free. I think that's pretty fair considering the racial lore behind them. When you look at every other race, they too get free additions (i.e. Theno, Dullahan, Heron, etc.). The reason why Glykin may seem popular sometimes is because it's a great starting race with balanced stats for many new players looking to not die to poison spam in a dungeon. That doesn't mean they're invincible to other status ailments like Burn, Interference, Ice Weakness, Frostbite, and so on. None of this stops players from choosing other races.

[FaeLenx]

Dullahan being used as an example for why a race is okay is never a good sign. It's a purposefully overtuned race that can do just about anything better than other races.

And those other races have some weakness or their strengths are things that they can build off of rather than things that strictly counter enemy choices. Also, saying that theno get sound attack for free is a hilariously based claim. It's true, but it doesn't matter. Even now that we have the literal singing classes, all sound attack has managed to do is overcome Acid to become the SECOND least used elemental scaling. Compare that with how useful poison immunity is.

[TCBlade]

As Korvara was released, I've seen many opportunities for people to go out of their comfort zone to roleplay a different race or two to instead sticking to arguably still one of the most powerful races in the game.

Glykin has been hit by the nerf-bat multiple times because of how absurd they used to be, yet their popularity has yet to drop and their viability in high-end player pve/pvp has never ceased due to their amazing racial of not being able to be poisoned to counter-act their ginormous HP-pools from a great vit-base.

Unlike beastkin and the other Serpent races who must actively invest into another stat - Sanctity in this case to utilize their patron blood, Glykin has no real incentive to do so outside of a minor HP regeneration increase which caps very quickly at lower investments which encourages no real need to touch it at all.

Because of the above glykins get to ignore a lot of dangerous abilities in the games without any thought - One big example is archer's snake shot and pulling shot combo to inflict KD which is outright disabled due to it being impossible to poison a glykin in the first place, invalidating the entire threat with zero stat investment. Not to mention a large amount of the game's monsters inflict poison as their main unique ability.

---

Proposal - Make their poison resistance/immunity tied to the sanctity trait. 

Perhaps at a minimum 50 scaled sanctity they'd obtain their complete poison immunity again similar to how Golden Eyes trait works. Because at that point you really do deserve it for being as close to your god as you can.

Glykins have enjoyed godhood and then their demigod status for too long. They must now live as us mortals do.

I'm going to be honest; I didn't expect to make an account, but this was what pushed me to finally make one.

This kind of post is what genuinely concerns me with this game.  I get it, poison powerful, haha.  But by this sort of logic, does that mean Salamandra should lose burn immunity, or that heron should lose their major boon of being able to cast through silence (even if they have to pay more FP, lose 1/5 damage, and can't invoke)?  I will admit, I do not play glykin.  I have no interest in doing so because the race does not appeal to me as of now, but I've been around long enough to know how it works, and I have friends and rivals alike who actively use them, but have we actually sat down to consider what is causing these nerfs to be needed in the first place?  I know, it sounds dumb, but seriously, take a moment, stop what you're doing, and reflect on that thought.

Nerfing is not how we should be solving our problems if we can help it, so instead I look to other races that are in need of a buff to compensate, or other races that may have abilities that one could argue about being "too strong" if things were a bit different.  If glykin is just "that strong" to enough people that they want it reworked and changed, then there has to be an origin that is the issue instead, not the race.  So let's do a bit of a breakdown of glykin's abilities, just as a refresher.

Glykin, presently, is fairly average across the board, with its highest stat at 7, being Vit, followed by a 5 in Faith and Skill, and the lowest being 0 Apt and Luck, followed by 2 in Guile.  The rest of its stats are fairly akin to a human, at 3 or 4 for all other points.  It also has one racial trait, the lowest out of any, Golden Blood.  To quote it directly, "A divine blood that fills the Glykin. They gain immunity to Poison and regenerate 1 (+1 per 2 Scaled SAN) HP every round in combat (max: 10). Any Vampire that tries to Feed on the Glykin will take Light damage. There is also a Faith% chance that any negative status applied to them that lasts 3 rounds or more will be reduced by 1 round."

Okay, so let's break it down even further, jam packed as it is into one effect...  "Divine blood" already insinuates, in lore, they have some kind of massive advantage, and in this case, as it states after, it's to poison.  Glycon himself literally took dying humans and gave them immunity to disease; it is presently on the lore of the wiki for the race, and I can screenshot it if I need to to re-affirm this.  This also would explain the regeneration.  They're flat out better than nagas and wyverntouched, which have a poison res, because they are the literal creation of a god, similar to how the Big Egg, Helondis, was able to grant revival capabilities to the Phenex race, which is a major boon for them.  Vampires make sense to take damage, but that's not what is being discussed here, so we'll skip it, but it ties into the purity of the blood, and then we have the same for the Faith% status.  Most status effects are 2-3 rounds, so this is fairly situational, as it applies the tick at the next round, in which case, it has already gone down, so the Faith passive may not even apply to it.

Now, similar to what Amber stated (I'd quote, but I've not been on forums for half a decade and I'm still trying to get back into it, but "Even something like a cold/dark weakness, -25% in one or -15% in both probably, could be enough to help balance the race out quite a lot. Make them more susceptible to their lizard heritage or corruption kind of thing, either way it would help set them in line as having a weakness for the boon of poison immunity."), I'd like to see a dark weakness tacked on if we have to cut it somewhere.  I'm personally hesitant on ice until we can get a bit of a readjustment towards that because I'm afraid a 25% ice weakness, or 30% if we go something akin to Papillion, will end up the race being abandoned because of ice's elemental standing right now, or at least made inferior to humans, which creates an entire other issue.  Additionally, it would provide dark attackers with another reason to go Hexer outside of statusing and hexes, along with the occasional curse here and there.  While I don't think it should be nerfed into oblivion, simply setting a hard cap for all characters to their amount of HP regen a turn would help to balance out the HP issue in a fair manner that anyone can still achieve reasonably, regardless of race or spread.

Another option, and as odd as it is, falls upon the players: just don't use poison as much, seriously.  Look, I doubt anyone will take this part seriously, and I acknowledge it.  To make an analogy, I play Pokemon semi-competitively, and if people made the suggestion to not use Toxic or Taunt in fights, I'd look at them awkwardly as well, but it's true.  As players, we all have the option to shape and change the meta, so if people are concerned about a race being too powerful, the answer is to stop using what they're strong against when fighting them.  If, say, burn goes up in usage, Salamandra would get better by proxy, but if it became too powerful, another shift can apply.  This weakens the race by proxy, but without actually nerfing them, meaning less risk involved.  And poison itself isn't too hard to work around, provided people stop complaining about needing certain abilities nerfed.

I present to you several exhibits, the first being Steel Blood.  "But Blade!  BK is too strong and needed those nerfs!"  Yes and no, but while I might make a topic about nerfs in general, this isn't the place for it, but I do hear you.  However, it was a fairly decent way to get rid of poison for races that aren't immune to it, and by weakening that down, glykin becomes stronger because of it's consistency.  Sure, I'll give you that point.  However, and while this is main land only, I point to the other race that is immune to poison: Dullahan!  Bet you forgot about the hunks of metal until I brought it up, huh?  To quote one of the effects of Immortal Shell directly: "Immunity to Poison".  Does this mean an uncommonly used race deserves to be punished as well, potentially, if it's unfair?  Or is it okay because it's "weaker" than glykin in the meta?  If so, then I bring up alternative damage sources: interference into that one hex I forget the name of because I so rarely see it on Hexer, lingering damage, burn damage, frosbite, cinders and static field to an extent.  Are these all not viable ways to cause damage to someone?  But just because some of these don't have a race immune, or because the ones that do could be called "inferior," does that justify ruining part of a race's lore-backed gimmick because of it?

Getting back to the topic of what others have said, I completely agree with what Hated has pointed out.  If we have to nerf something because there's no other way, just as I brought up earlier, why not trim the roots to prevent the plant from growing further?  Now, I don't mean cut out poison altogether, but instead make it less oppressive.  People will naturally flock to one of two things, what interests them or what they know is strong.  If poison isn't as strong as it presently is, naturally, glykins aren't the "top tier race" everyone always suggests they are.  Buffing other races to compensate should be the ideal and preferential way of going about this instead of nerfing something a handful of people are upset over.  If it's that big that a majority of the community becomes vocal, that's one thing, but as it stands, I've heard very few complaints about glykin, and more about poison being obnoxious, which is why they pick it.



TLDR: The issue itself isn't Glykin as a race.  A combination of poison itself being extremely strong due to how consistent it is plus its constant usage in pvp.  If Salamandra, Dullahan, and to an extent, Heron and most Kaels, can all get immunities (or semi-immunities at a cost of some kind), why should Glykin be punished?  Either buff other races who need it more if it's that egrigious, or nerf poison.


Thank you all for taking the time to read this, and I'll probably go back at some point and make some edits to reword for clarification and ease of reading, as I'm a little tense and frustrated while I wrote all of this.  This isn't meant to be targeted towards anyone, or to say you're all to blame; these are just my two cents from my experiences playing SL2 and generally staying out of the limelight up until recently.

[PantherPrincess]

Dullahan being used as an example for why a race is okay is never a good sign. It's a purposefully overtuned race that can do just about anything better than other races.

And those other races have some weakness or their strengths are things that they can build off of rather than things that strictly counter enemy choices. Also, saying that theno get sound attack for free is a hilariously based claim. It's true, but it doesn't matter. Even now that we have the literal singing classes, all sound attack has managed to do is overcome Acid to become the SECOND least used elemental scaling. Compare that with how useful poison immunity is.

Dullahan being on that list was not the point I was trying to make and if that's all you got from it then shrug. If 60 free sound attack is trivial or rather "doesn't matter" to you then I don't know what to tell you but my Theno says otherwise. Those weaknesses only apply to specific races and not all across the board. Kaelansians in example don't really have a weakness themselves (counting silver bullets is silly because not everyone is a gunner). Comparing poison immunity to any other racial trait that gives access to free buffs is quite valid if you ask me. I can sit here and do the same thing up above and complain about how it's unfair that Herons shut down anti magic builds completely or how it's unfair that by building 25 sanctity (or even none) Kaelansians can shut down any blind build or how Shaitans are immune to fear, hesitation, and charm but regardless does that make it a valid argument just because I want to try justifying it with reasons like "Wyverns need to build this and X and Y need to build that." and "I'd like to shoot them with poison arrows.". It's rather hypocritical to point out my Dullahan inclusion as an example and the OP is literally already comparing races lol. I am quite aware of Dullahans and what they can do. My point was simply to note that every race has their pros and cons. Glykin are not invincible because you can simply brush off poison as one. Nor do they make the obsolete race for any build. There are many methods to builds and battle. A lot of things work against them. If it were the case where it was impossible to work around their racial and injure them in general, I would completely understand but such is not the situation. I would also like to point out that Glykins already are forced to build sanctity if they want higher HP regen and it too caps out at a fixed number.

[Snake]

Glykins do need a drawback of some sort, tied to their Golden Blood.

I suggest they should be completely immune to any form of Poison-type damage (natural 999% Poison Resistance), but they can still be inflicted with the status. And while they are Poisoned, their blood is working on overtime to keep the toxins in check, therefore lowering their Status Resistance by 50% (-10% per 10 Scaled SAN to a minimum of 0%)

This could be a good compromise between people who don't like them being fully immune to Poison's effects, and also people who want Poison to at least affect them in some way so they're not the godmod race.

[Lolzytripd]

Glykins do need a drawback of some sort, tied to their Golden Blood.

I suggest they should be completely immune to any form of Poison-type damage (natural 999% Poison Resistance), but they can still be inflicted with the status. And while they are Poisoned, their blood is working on overtime to keep the toxins in check, therefore lowering their Status Resistance by 50% (-10% per 10 Scaled SAN to a minimum of 0%)

This could be a good compromise between people who don't like them being fully immune to Poison's effects, and also people who want Poison to at least affect them in some way so they're not the godmod race.

As a wyverntouched player dealing with the sadge high number of glykins, I would enjoy sill being able poison them, if only so that I may steal the status for my venom drive.