[CuteRedCrab]

Something I've been noticing for some time now is the lack of actual proper villainous characters and groups that are outside of a nation's sphere. Every group, in some way, has to interact with a nation, and very carefully thread so they don't get immediately destroyed at the first sign of danger that a nation spots with them.

I always hear of new groups being made but never that anything is actually happening with them. Since. Well. You can't have that. There's never a sort of looming threat outside of eventline-specific groups that are ever talked about, because if a PC group gets traction, it leads to its almost immediate demise.

I think having more neutral zones will partially do something with this. Villain groups will get to exist somewhere thay isn't immediately owned by a nation (assuming they don't do that anyway), and be able to properly retreat and grow in number. Otherwise it's just walking on eggshells since you're always in a nation's territory.

Regardless, I will await to see what Dev's cooking.

[Skimmy2]

While adding areas like Law's End that offer a different experience than the existing nations is a potentially good idea, doing so under the motivation of creating spaces where 'things really matter here, and you can do everything people would whine about elsewhere' is not. First of all, let's be real - people are still going to complain.

Second, and more importantly, creating isolated areas with wildly different OOC expectations is harmful to the RP environment, because it makes it less immersive, among other reasons.

Looks at Korvara.
Looks at Sigrogana.
Looks back at Korvara.

Sorry for the Jab Devmunch, I just couldnt help myself. Rest assured that I say this with love, and mean no ill will. <3

I think a very major part of people's annoyance with consequence driven conflict, at least on this large a scale where it affects nations... Is just that there's no "opt out" button. If someone just wants to be a bar keep in Meiaquar or something, and has done so with the intent on never touching serious conflict or wanting to be involved, and suddenly finds out that their nation is at war, and now everything is practically revolving around it for the next few months at least, with possible serious RP changing consequences that they kind of have no way of impacting themselves? I can get being upset, yea.

If conflict and war are going to be an integral part of Korvara, one that is allowed and even expected to happen... That needs to be properly advertised, and people need to know what they're getting into.

It WAS advertised from the very beginning, y'all munchers are just allergic to reading, invest that talent point damnit!




Korvara was always a high stakes total drama island, that's what it was always suppose to be; higher stakes than Sigrogana.

Personally I've never liked how the leadership slots/national guilds worked, and many a people have voiced their opinions on them over the years.
honest to munch, if I had my way, Meiaquar would have had an incredibly weak/non-existent central government, and just be a bunch of loosely allied families/factions all pushing for their agenda or trying to get a slice of the pie; This style of Roleplay should have been encouraged and fostered from the very start.

Just look at this banger lore:


Where is this Meiaquar? Has this Meiaquar ever existed in anything but as a Backstory?
We should be having non-stop crime families all diplomunching eachother in backstabber city, the only thing that could temporarily unite the city should have been external threats or incredibly powerful individuals who could bend the city to it's knees.
Instead we settle for robots and pirates? (Not throwing shade, I genuinely love them <3. But as somebody who's really into Yakuza and has RPed a Yakuza Clan in Oniga for 4 years now; it's clear what my heart yearned for.)

If you want more content, just make each nation's City/Capital the size of Cellsvich's main map and watch what happens with all of the new realestate that we can munch about and play with.

Edit, Addendum:

Poruku
"I mean hell... What about the black beast raids? That was fun. Wouldn't it already be a huge boon to have timed automatic events like that in the game? Back in G6, many people latched onto the black beast stuff for rp, made militias and whole guilds around it, etc. You could have something like that in Korvara, you could even have one for every level 80 area. Lava lake eruption, Snow Forest winter spirit that threatens to advance the cold, haunted forest necromancer boss, and a small behemoth in the canyon. If we had these things happen regularly there would be something for people to do, a reason for people to band together ICly. I think the boss rematches are really cool, but the big issue with them is that they don't feel IC. It feels like something you do without a real purpose in character, so there's no reason to roleplay about it.


Anyway, that's my two cents on this"

This, 100% this.

Make a Fishing Contest in Meiaquar. (Don't add the diving helmet or you will crash the murai economy)
Make a Farming Festival in Telegrad.
Make the Snakemen automatically siege the walls.
Make goblins stalk the outskirts of the caverns at night.

Hell, have it where bosses in dungeons don't disappear after a set period. Instead have them spawning cause changes to the dungeon and potentially outside of it, the longer that the boss is alive, the more changes to the game's world their should be.

And you will get amazing roleplay, im not munching kidding, do it.
If the Land of Korvara is 100% player driven then just remove all dungeons and badlands, as they will never threaten the players.
Stop making snakemen Duyuei's bish and start having them attack the wall similar to how Black Beasts raids are done.

Suddenly Dev has carte blanche to punish us if we fail, BAM content update.
Dont worry, if we screw up too hard we got mama Nemalyth to protecc the land from us being too incompetent.

[Tana]

If you want more content, just make each nation's City/Capital the size of Cellsvich's main map and watch what happens with all of the new realestate that we can munch about and play with.

They already are as big as, or in most cases, bigger, than Cellsvich's main map, with much more interior space than Cellsvich, or really, most of the great six combined.

I don't think more map will necessary introduce more roleplay, if it's set within the main maps of cities.

[Skimmy2]

If you want more content, just make each nation's City/Capital the size of Cellsvich's main map and watch what happens with all of the new realestate that we can munch about and play with.

They already are as big as, or in most cases, bigger, than Cellsvich's main map, with much more interior space than Cellsvich, or really, most of the great six combined.

I don't think more map will necessary introduce more roleplay, if it's set within the main maps of cities.

Press Munch to doubt.

I just counted, Cellsvich's main area is X178 by Y114. (give or take a lil depending on how you want to count.)

No, I dont believe you realize just how large Cellsvich is compared to any city in Korvara.

Meiaquar is by my count X70 by Y103

Geladyne, in all of it's glory is X139 by Y112
Damn so close, the real reason they never wanna invade G6.

I will concede however, that enlarging the map would not necessarily mean with certainty that roleplay will improved.

[Lolzytripd]

If you want more content, just make each nation's City/Capital the size of Cellsvich's main map and watch what happens with all of the new realestate that we can munch about and play with.

They already are as big as, or in most cases, bigger, than Cellsvich's main map, with much more interior space than Cellsvich, or really, most of the great six combined.

I don't think more map will necessary introduce more roleplay, if it's set within the main maps of cities.

Press Munch to doubt.

I just counted, Cellsvich's main area is X178 by Y114. (give or take a lil depending on how you want to count.)

No, I dont believe you realize just how large Cellsvich is compared to any city in Korvara.

Meiaquar is by my count X70 by Y103

Geladyne, in all of it's glory is X139 by Y112
Damn so close, the real reason they never wanna invade G6.

I will concede however, that enlarging the map would not necessarily mean with certainty that roleplay will improved.

skimmy understands the conflict advertisement issues,

[Neus]

Press Munch to doubt.

I just counted, Cellsvich's main area is X178 by Y114. (give or take a lil depending on how you want to count.)

No, I dont believe you realize just how large Cellsvich is compared to any city in Korvara.

Meiaquar is by my count X70 by Y103

Geladyne, in all of it's glory is X139 by Y112
Damn so close, the real reason they never wanna invade G6.

I will concede however, that enlarging the map would not necessarily mean with certainty that roleplay will improved.

All Korvara exterior maps (including towns) are 150x150, though in Meiaquar's case about 20-25% of it is ocean.

[Snake]

Meiaquar could benefit from the Atlantis expansion or additional connecting islands, especially if most of the map remains largely sea. Korvara, while rich in potential, feels small in scale—like how Tura's Unwritten nomads can be fully explored in just over a month. To sustain the game's lifespan, adding new places to explore might be more beneficial than further refining existing ones. I believe Korvara hasn’t reached its full potential yet, and I hope the idea of expanding it doesn't get shelved.

While future neutral zones might spark complaints or out-of-character conflicts, it’s better to address those as they arise and focus on getting things done instead. The game's diverse perspectives can only be unified through Moderator-driven lore; certain core elements can't be left entirely to players, as it risks creating what I like to call "too many chefs" chaos, and reducing overall enjoyment.

Ideally speaking, each nation could use the old approach of "The Good (Lawful), The Bad (Lawless) and the Ugly (Neutral)". Where most of the Lawless places would require a full party to explore, and traversing through a zone of LV100 enemies, perhaps through small expansions of specific dungeons. Such as Telegrad's Lake, leading further deep into its forests and eventually to the Great Witch's abode, or its entrance at least.

Further examples:

Geladyne
- The main city and its surroundings are all Lawful.
- Wanderer's Vale could be considered the Neutral. (Though RP has been making it more and more an independent place, so I'm unsure of that anymore.)
- Deeper into the Lava Lake, it leads to another dungeon full of high level mobs and a blockade that requires you to go through a gauntlet of some sort. Winning that, grants you access to the Lawless zone of Geladyne, some underground forgotten city.

Telegrad
- The main city and its surroundings are all Lawful.
- Sharis Forest could be the Neutral. (Though as expected, scrutiny of Telegradian law has long absorbed it, so you'd find it hard to have 'neutral' things happening there if the entirety of the city will appear to snoop. Especially with those flares and stuff.)
- Deeper into the Halard Lake leading to another map, same idea, LV100 mobs and such. End by the gates of the Great Witch's Manor Grounds or something. Where there is a settlement a few away from the unpassable entrance of the main gates.

Duyuei
- The main city and its surroundings are all Lawful.
- Duyuei does not have a Neutral ground. It should have the Weald (with The Hunting Grounds included, which is a settlement in it, sort of like how Sharis Forest works, but for Duyuei, and more unga bunga). Ideally, the Hunting Grounds would serve as a connection between Duyuein and Telegradian hunters, and other miscreants seeking for a thrill.
- Deeper into the Wastes or Worsong Canyon, the fabled Law's Endn't, named something like "Unwritten Springs" or whatever. The Lawless place where the only rule is to be polite.

Meiaquar
- The main city and its surroundings are all Lawful.
- Fairview was intended to be its Neutral grounds, RP happened. But Meiaquar also has the Ice Tundra island which serves the role. And soon it will also have the Slums.
- I am unsure of how the access would work, but there's plenty of ideas of what it could get. Underwater Atlantis city, or some off-shore island plagued with natural disasters, like Eureka. Same idea.

All of the Lawless Zones should have monsters spawning in them, similar to the Neutral zones. Even inside the settlements. This is because so we as Eventmins can make "raids" happen from time to time, to keep people in their toes on boring days. Or hell, make these have their own raids, we got the system in with Seto, no? I think I miss that a lot from the mainland and wish Korvara would have those sorts of pass-times in its Lawless zones. (Shark Attack in underwater Atlantis! Snakeman Raid in Wastes City! Burrowing critters and goblins in the underground city! Pandemonioum of the Great Witch on the Telegradian settlement!)

These new locations would serve to fill in the alignment gaps required to expand a little more people's narratives between Law, Neutral, Chaos. Each connected by at least two maps to Korvara's main diamond, providing challenging environments for action-loving players while allowing the more lax players to enjoy the safer main setting where things are all consensual and pro-stalemate rule protected.

Sort of doubling like an endgame goal, if ya' get me. It's not purely about villains and heroes, it's more about where your interests align. Chaotic people don't have a place to be in Korvara, because they're prosecuted quite fast by the overbearing amount of Lawful ones. So the only option, as is, is to "suck up" and be Neutral at best. Or do your Chaos in very tight and organized situations that you can get away with it, after handshaking and passing on a few dollar bills under the wraps. It's at least what I think that hurts the 'flowing river' idea. But I ain't slick, just sharing my opinions and ideas.

and you all keep dereiling me thred, i kil you!!! (It's fine, I like this direction it's taking. I just hope the info here gets used for something ultimately.)

[Sawrock]

I have a question. It is not that I want this, but more that I am just inquiring if it's possible: Can a nation take over another one entirely? Not in the lore, but in the "current times". I'm also not asking if it's possible from a logistical standpoint, but more of if it's even a thing that could ever happen in the first place, or if it would get shot down. Whether as a vassal state or integrating another territory as alternative cities, I do think the possibility is interesting and would definitely make Kcorvara roleplay seem less rigid. And I'm not saying we should throw out player's work into their nations; if, for example, Telegrad took over Geladyne (with cowboys descending on the walls like those weird bug things from Valley of the Wind), then Geladyne's leadership could, for example, still rule, just being subservient to their barbeque-obsessed Telegradian overlords.

If it's not possible, that does create a weird failstate for the world. People are able to create "nations", or at the very least, nationstates. With the creation of Wanderer's Vale and Fairview, people are eager to make their own communities. Which is great! It's amazing that people are able to have their decisions and work be used in this roleplaying environment and create something that is concretely creative and beneficial to the community. But it does cause the unique problem of "first come, first serve"- there's only so much world. If who got here first are allowed to make these nationstates, but then there's no more room for adjustment afterwards, the whole flexibility of Kcorvara- of allowing players to partake in motions that change the world- is crippled. You've built a jenga tower, but you can't allow it to collapse. Specifically, the failstate is that once the world is filled with set pieces of political lore that is unable to be changed, then at a certain point of volume/complexity the world will become stagnant.

Once again, it is not that I myself want a nation to be able to take over another nation entirely through war, just that I have concerns if we lean too much on trying to keep to the status quo, the game will suffer as a result.

[Druby]

It WAS advertised from the very beginning, y'all munchers are just allergic to reading, invest that talent point damnit!

My comment on this would be how long has it been since anyone has actually used that site? I'm sure people have glanced at it, but I think the only time it was really brought up, and its information pushed around was during the time when Korvara was brand new. All the information new players get when joining nowadays is simply what people tell them, or what rules are written in the Discord/on the forums. There's little to no mention of this sort of conflict anymore, and Korvara has shifted dramatically since these first days as well. The rules (or more lack of them in my opinion) have shifted to focus on things other than supporting PvP style content.

The rest I either agree with or have no real comment on.

I will say that, I don't think making maps simply bigger in of itself solves anything. I do think more maps/spaces to play in would help, but they'd need to be added with a purpose rather than just expansion for expansion's sake. Spaces for more morally dubious groups to exist in would be great, such as the often discussed Slums project for Meiaquar, and as an adjacent topic to this one, I think Korvara lacks extremely in spaces for players to run their own projects in general. It's all competition over pre-existing housing spaces, which drastically limits what players can do when trying to set up their own groups, or run their own events and experiences, but I've covered a lot of that in a housing thread already so I won't repeat it all here.

I do think that playing villains, in just about any public RP environment you go to, is an exceedingly difficult task though, and one that I don't think has any easy answers, no matter how much people lament. Anyone not trying to play an antagonist that's primarily an event antagonist is going to have extreme issues when playing the "classical" sort of villain, ones with grand plans and ambitions and are willing to hurt others to achieve them. Everyone wants to be Darth Vader or Sephiroth, or any of these other big names out there when they plan their antagonist, and that just clashes heavily with the environment of most RP communities on a player to player interaction level. Smaller stakes villains, or characters who are more just brusque or even just plain assholes fit in a bit better, but still suffer some similar problems.

When you only have a couple of RP hubs, you end up having your "big bad" stuck in the same bar as John Adventurer, who's out trying to (generally) be a good person, and often RPing in the same spaces. This isn't easily solved by JUST adding more spaces for the morally dubious (though it helps) as if these spaces just don't have the population to keep RP there, you're basically just playing in a sandbox by yourself. There's also the question of what consequences are allowed/can happen. If your villain is the sort to do actually horrible things; killing, kidnapping, burning down orphanages, etc, what stops a player from (probably rightfully in some capacity) deciding that it's better for your villain to just die than be allowed to run around and doing more terrible things? Is your villain allowed to kill other players?

In more PvP driven communities, these answers would just be "yes", with examples such as other Byond games as NRP or DBRP which have a massive focus on PvP aspects, and players largely allowed to do what they want so long as they're powerful enough to back up their ambitions. However, these sorts of things bring their own vast array of problems, and to be frank... I'm on SL2 because I don't like those sorts of environments, and I would not want to see SL2 become like any of those other games.

As is though, villains are just difficult to play nearly anywhere, and it's not an easy thing to fix. I'm not saying that there shouldn't be efforts to promote or allow these styles of play, but it's not something that just adding a few map spaces will resolve.

[Shujin]

its also not just "Missing Spaces". Lets say we add more land, that is open for grabs to make more places like Fairview or the Wanderer's vale. We are still a relatively small community, and most people already spread themselves among multiple places at the same time.

Having more such places for "Another Fairview" would just be that...Another Fairview without actually bringing much to the table in terms of much different Roleplaying avenues without thinning others, or just having the very same people migrate from one to another for a bit. Thats not going to make the roleplay more interesting on its own.

Places can't just be added for the sake of being added, there needs to be some purpose of some kind as many of us seem to agree.


Playing a villian is pretty difficult in general, even more so if you can NOT kill. Someone witnesses something they were not supposed to see? GG, nothing you can do about it, they tell someone else and then the squad rolls in, and for you it will be deadly. I am not saying that everyone should be a murder hobo, but sometimes there are moments, where it just makes the most sense to achieve self-preservation.
And I am going to say it again, if the management generally is not open to Player driven Antagonism or conflict and stops every RP in that regard, after the fact, then thats not going to boost morale of these people, that have it hard enough already. They really do not need the extra 50 hoops to jump through. I feel such things need to be very much made clear, no one likes having their long running plot lines ruined, based on a whim of someone not even invovled. Or even getting punished for trying to do it as has happend serval times in the past. If this keeps happening it really just becomes a "Us versus Them"-OOCly, and thats really nothing I wish upon SL2.