[Lolzytripd]

I cannot quantify the degree in which the current borders of korvara, the stagnation, the lack of change, and the lack of use to those changes is grinding my gears

over the nearly two years  since the meiaquar geladyne war I have rarely ever seen geladynian character roleplay actually usage, guarding, or duties related to their expanded border in the badlands.

it took a full year for the trenches leftover from the war and several placeables to even get tidied up, barricades for months clipping over sections of the revised map.


I'm always going to be upset at the way the war was run, the way the war forced upon the meiaquarian playerbase like a flashbang as all the build up prior had been in secret.

But I'm more upset....that no one's doing anything with what they've won. Only the gremlin in the cave get's visited by people collecting materials, no one else goes to the badlands.


I propose we just oocly accept, no one want's to do wars in korv, that's okay, clearly no one wants to do them, but can we ungore the border gore at some point.

If nations want to "save face" you could just go with some sort of natural disaster that makes the land untamable and "resets it to zero"

[Poruku]

If you go to the badlands right now, you'll see tremendous amount of stuff. Market stalls, buildings, npc soldiers. It's true, all of this is simply never being used for roleplay. Personally, I think that's a shame, but mainly because I can't use it as a base for bandits anymore.

Of course, it would be nice if the badlands were being patrolled by geladyne, or if anything happened there. But it's not like Meiaquar was making use of it either. In the end, that's what 95% of Korvara is: empty space that nobody uses.

However, I think it's a leap in logic to want the badlands to be "returned to meiaquar" simply because of that. What would it accomplish exactly? Nothing. You want there to be a disaster that resets things to zero? A narrative convenience of that scale would cause massive problems in people's personal stories, as well as the lore and history of both nations. It would invalidate the work of many people.

No, that's not the solution. In fact I don't even think the state of the badlands is a problem that needs to be solved.

Let's look at what the war actually did for us. Have you roleplayed in Meiaquar recently? The hatred towards Geladynians makes for some awesome scenes and moments. We have tension, we have history. I think it's juicy, it actually makes the world feel like there's something going on. From something that happened over a year ago, there's still people talking about it and roleplaying about it. Do you really think this is useless?

And who decided that we don't want to do wars? From what I understand, the global consensus is that it could have been handled better in many ways. And the toxicity that emerged from it was also terrible. But does that mean we are going to give up all wars forever? Hell no. In the future, there might be a moment in time where the conditions are right for a war, and perhaps we'll come to an agreement and do it more efficiently and smoothly this time.

The point of a war is not just about conquering territory. The territory barely matters, nobody truly cares about the badlands in roleplay. What matters is the story it creates; the interpersonal conflicts that emerge.

The SL2 community is generally terrible at handling conflict, because this game is built on a foundation of consent. Since people expect consent to be a part of their experience, anything that goes against the story they wanted is a problem. Conflict inherently causes problems. But you know what else it does? It creates the best scenes, the most emotional moments, the most awesome stories. For all the pain, there still remains some unforgettable memories, and the events themselves echo throughout many roleplays in the future. This is why despite all the failures of the past, many people persist and still want conflict to this day.

I don't think anything needs to be done about the badlands. Think of it like empty space. It's waiting there until someone wants to use it. When that happens, then we can talk about how that will go. For instance, if Meiaquarise resistance fighters want to independently cause terrorism in the badlands, then that would become something.

But let's be honest, if Meiaquar took back the badlands, it would be the exact same thing as it is now. Just an unused piece of land that serves as a memory of past conflict.

[Lolzytripd]

Polk yes, I essentially want it returned to being untamed land that should not be developed on. Not tamed by meiaquar in the same or a new manner, but literally up ended since none of what it currently is being used, Yes primarily to allow it as land for banditry or lawlessness.

Here's the thing though I'm pretty sure meiaquar will never fight for it, wrong or right, the last time meiaquar fought, half of meiaquar refused to fight, at the time fairview refused to even join it in their defense.

And here's the thing I would love to make a character that would stir up tension, maybe even harass geladynian npc's in the region, try raid them, steal, ect, make the land to costly to keep from them but you know what would happen instead?

A) the character gets caught and eventually executed by geladynians with very little accomplished

B) the character gets beat down and stopped by meiaquarians trying to avoid another war

C) the roleplay gets ignored because no one wants to icly acknowledge it and increase actual stakes

D) I get told to not make the character because I'm just making them to stir up my OOC opinion on the area.

[Maromar158]

I do think the issue of stagnation would be lessened if there was more land to play around with and use that would both warrant nations sending their uber elite player character forces (and npcs through narrates and such) to do stuff in, and also be slightly too large to have perfect control over (the response times and inability to run a successful campaign of villainy is a large reason why we see so few antags I think).

Maybe put resources or other limited points of interest or even random dungeons around these new outskirt areas to encourage very limited competition with the implicit understanding that people don't usually travel off of the roads until reaching the safer spots and that there's some measure of IC (though not necessarily mechanical) risk involved.

Essentially stagnation is something of a problem in Korvara because the roleplay spaces feel like there isn't enough room or opportunity to promote long lasting player driven initiatives and the things that do happen are kept pretty close to a select handful that has authority or are connected to the movers and shakers.

Though I'll admit the perception of the space we have available may also be a contributing factor. The fear of being punished for things in a way that would effectively bench or scrub the characters you spent a lot of time dreaming up and leveling is a big deterrent to much aside from slice of life stuff happening. Expanding the EM roster has helped somewhat, but we can go a bit further...

[Ray2064]

Honestly, while some don't look back on it fondly at all, I kinda miss the whole political overarching subplot we had going. It kind of just got put to a gigantic halt after...Snabd/The war, and it was kind of all Korvara as an overall setting had to stir things forward and force corners of Korv to actually acknowledge each other, lmao.

Nowadays, there's kind of a disconnect between different factions/nations overall, and to quote someone else, it kind of just feels like everyone is holed up in their own corner and has their own sandbox with their own thing going on without necessarily being acknowledged by the rest, to the point of where lore flat out doesn't align/add up between different parts of the setting, which makes it awkward to engage with as a result.

As an example (albeit a personal anecdote), I had some sort of incident happen where my character was questioning another's ability for not knowing about a concept (Focus Trails/Prints), only for me to realize shortly after that the other player wasn't really aware of it, so I kind of just felt like a douche for it. ...Afterwards, I realized I really only heard about that kind of thing from word of mouth, In-RP, without any sort of way to verify that it actually exists.

We kind of had that recently with the approval of the invention of the camera in Meiaquar, while there was a much more ancient-like model being developed in Geladyne at the SAME TIME. This isn't even anyone's fault, the former side likely had and could've had no idea of the current state of things all the way in Gela as a result of how the RP environment works.

Some form of reference, like an overall Korvara Lore Doc would go a long way to help to with maintaining things to be somewhat cohesive, imo.

It also doesn't help that, from what I understand, since most of the playerbase is 'trapped' on Korvara as it essentially sucked G6's activity dry, and as such is where you'll find people to actually interact with, some of those players actually preferred the overall vibes of G6 to Korv and are kind of just bringing it as a result of, you know, engaging with the game the way they prefer to, which in itself isn't much of an issue. It's not like the playerbase is nearly big enough to actually warrant a split between the preferred playstyles on both settings.

[Miller]

Korvara is a sandbox made of mud with four very defined squares with their own unique groups in them, ignoring the few exceptions to this rule. Stagnation is pretty much inevitable without the world itself changing due to the fact that the general playerbase hasn't really meshed well with matters of conflict and consequence and nor will I blame anyone for not meshing well with it after being on several games where your story can end at the sole discretion of others.

I don't necessarily think stagnation is a bad thing per say; it puts a lot of weight on the players themselves to tell their own story, but I feel Korvara itself was designed to cater towards players actively having part in a world that's changing... in a game/community where consequence and conflict are undesirable. Seriously, the amount of stories I've seen just be cut short because people can't get along or respect each other is insane.

In short, this is just me moaning about losing G6 again more or less. Having a way less established setting and less creative tools/freedom as a player in Korvara still stings to this day.

[zericosmic]

Korvara is a sandbox made of mud with four very defined squares with their own unique groups in them, ignoring the few exceptions to this rule. Stagnation is pretty much inevitable without the world itself changing due to the fact that the general playerbase hasn't really meshed well with matters of conflict and consequence and nor will I blame anyone for not meshing well with it after being on several games where your story can end at the sole discretion of others.

I don't necessarily think stagnation is a bad thing per say; it puts a lot of weight on the players themselves to tell their own story, but I feel Korvara itself was designed to cater towards players actively having part in a world that's changing... in a game/community where consequence and conflict are undesirable. Seriously, the amount of stories I've seen just be cut short because people can't get along or respect each other is insane.

In short, this is just me moaning about losing G6 again more or less. Having a way less established setting and less creative tools/freedom as a player in Korvara still stings to this day.

With how the community has reacted to large scale conflict, and the desire and contingencies made to minimize it, it makes me feel like the entire selling point of Korvara is something that the community does not even want, and as it stands, Korvara actually has very few bonuses to G6, outside of the fact that it's the supported place to play on, there is less lore, there are fewer races, there is less freedom.

The actual player freedom is locked to a handful of people at the top, who can also deny other player's freedoms to make things within their borders, not to mention the need for mappers to also approve of a player's ideas to build something. "Player houses" are also very much locked to the people at the top.

The nations have become in a way insulated from one another, to the point that It feels like they're highschool cafeteria tables, it makes me feel like it was a mistake to even have multiple nations. If this game was taking place in just one big nation, the roleplay would be far more dynamic and active, instead of how it is now, where there's almost always 2 nations that are dead, most of the values between nations are pretty homoginized anyway.

[Rendar]

Korvara is a sandbox made of mud with four very defined squares with their own unique groups in them, ignoring the few exceptions to this rule. Stagnation is pretty much inevitable without the world itself changing due to the fact that the general playerbase hasn't really meshed well with matters of conflict and consequence and nor will I blame anyone for not meshing well with it after being on several games where your story can end at the sole discretion of others.

I don't necessarily think stagnation is a bad thing per say; it puts a lot of weight on the players themselves to tell their own story, but I feel Korvara itself was designed to cater towards players actively having part in a world that's changing... in a game/community where consequence and conflict are undesirable. Seriously, the amount of stories I've seen just be cut short because people can't get along or respect each other is insane.

In short, this is just me moaning about losing G6 again more or less. Having a way less established setting and less creative tools/freedom as a player in Korvara still stings to this day.

With how the community has reacted to large scale conflict, and the desire and contingencies made to minimize it, it makes me feel like the entire selling point of Korvara is something that the community does not even want, and as it stands, Korvara actually has very few bonuses to G6, outside of the fact that it's the supported place to play on, there is less lore, there are fewer races, there is less freedom.

The actual player freedom is locked to a handful of people at the top, who can also deny other player's freedoms to make things within their borders, not to mention the need for mappers to also approve of a player's ideas to build something. "Player houses" are also very much locked to the people at the top.

The nations have become in a way insulated from one another, to the point that It feels like they're highschool cafeteria tables, it makes me feel like it was a mistake to even have multiple nations. If this game was taking place in just one big nation, the roleplay would be far more dynamic and active, instead of how it is now, where there's almost always 2 nations that are dead, most of the values between nations are pretty homoginized anyway.

Can't believe Zeri supports the One Nation dream of Geladyne ruling over everyone. This is so fucked bros.

Unfortunately, I kind of agree. This isn't so much a jab at any people in particular, and more just a rant at this point so My Bad on that.. but. Leadership is a god damn circle. It genuinely feels Clique-ish, even if it's not intended to be. And if you aren't In with said crowd, you won't really ever get shit done. Because to do anything in a nation.

You have to ask for Nation Approval to do the thing. And if it's a more unorthodox thing. You have to ask GMs after. And then you have to get an EM to run it/assist if it requires that. It's jumping through a LOT of hoops to do something. If you're an antagonistic organization, you also are Destined To Fail by the end of it all. Government's can't be overthrown or even really contested. Even if you DO, the nations are so Buddy Buddy with one another now, that even Duyuei who is Constantly Manning The Wall can throw 4-8 adventurer's at the problem.

This isn't even getting started on the Player House situation, which is If You're At The Top Of The Social Pole, You Get One (Which was likely made early Korvara). If you aren't? Uhhhh. Inn rooms. No personalization. Everyone says they have a House IC, but actually you just waddle behind a house that allows waddling behind and post there in theatre of mind. It's really, really, unfortunate and bad. And I know people will bemoan Player Housing which I never felt was a problem.

But like. WE CAN'T FIND EACHOTHER HALF THE TIME ANYWAYS. People are in Rank Only areas for their nation. Or they're in 1 of 2 common areas. MAYBE 1 of 3/4 depending on how hopping Ravenswatch gets. It really isn't detracting from shit more than it already is.

[Snake]

Right now, G6 honestly feels more free than Korvara ever did. You can create your own roleplay hubs (even if they’re paid), start groups around whatever you're into, and find like-minded people to join you. As long as you respect Sigrogana's baseline lore, you’re free to do almost anything.

Just don’t mess with the 'main Touhou setting,' which basically means not breaking the time bubble.

Korvara promised that same freedom. And at first, we did have it. People went wild with creativity, made their own stories, explored new ideas... but it got out of control, too fast, too soon. Things became unfair, and eventually, unfun to handle. Too troublesome to 'trust', mainly because of the "randomness" behind certain leadership choices and the lack of further, official support once these leaders got a place in the world.

So people pulled back. We stopped exploring and just stuck to the familiar. We ran from that chaos back to the known safety that we had in G6, which I like to call "enforced order", and eventually, things became stale again. To no one's surprise. Heavily monitored, decisions left to small groups, and everything judged more by how it 'feels right' than what the game's RP environment sphere actually needs.

We turned something that was supposed to be organic into another rigid system. No heart, just structure. Which is ironic, because it’s the opposite of how Dev designed Korvara to be.

Somehow, as a community, we reversed that design.

I still regret becoming an EM too late to fully use the tools in a place where chaos used to be welcomed with open arms and a beer in each hand. Still, I'm glad that when I was new and had that bit of leeway, I got to hit the TNT lever on Telegrad and leave a mark people still remember, even if after a recent revisit of those mobs with Miller's help, I see how insufferable they were to deal with like holy shit what the hell, the build I was working on for hours got clapped with no remorse.

But now? What comes next? What future are we heading toward if we just keep looping back to the same standstill?

Maybe what we need is a break. For a lot of people. Just to take a step back and remember that SL2 is a game. Not a lifeline, not the center of anyone's existence. Creative work isn't something you can just plug into a machine and farm forever. Unless you're YouTube. And even then, even earning money for it, it burns people out.

Now, regarding space limitations, this-and-that, uhhh...

I dunno man. Korvara is an island, the intended scope is small not planetary as we had, we're like that lore blurb about caging a bunch of beasts in one spot and seeing who comes out on top. And, if you want my honesty?

We're kinda due for another diastrophism. Or things that influence Korvara as a whole that is not some eldritch being on a predictable clockwise across nations, or some maniac resurrecting bone dragons, or localized Helldivers bugs spawning here and there, or some fried chicken who is too spicy to die (and its Telegradian hubby).

It has to be a war, against the unknown. Against outside forces. It has to be something that makes us stop cannibalizing each other for content, because after 2-3 years, we're only chewing on bones.

There's no meat left to cannibalize.

[zericosmic]

We're kinda due for another diastrophism.

I mostly agree.. I hope if/when another diastrophism happens, that it's something that will shake up the setting, introduce something entirely new. THROW A FUCKING PIPE BOMB IN TO IT.

I do worry in the way that if the eventual D2 will just be more land, which would inevitably end empty, and just be more places for people to walk and maybe sometimes RP without adding some actual new ingredient to the setting, the setting could really use something fresh and new, specially with how much we struggle to fill the places with RP as is.

I do also agree that the setting could use an omnipresent threat for all the EMs to mess around with, for players to be able to inject in to their backstory with or without anyone's permission.. Put in mfing Sauron or something, an actual intelligent threat that can act unpredictably.. Because as it stands, outside of players, almost every antagonistic force on Korvara tends to either fall in to mindless or beastial monsters or CULTS CULTS CULTS, CRAZY CULTS, and the occasional bandits.