[zericosmic]

While I could provide math for why this is awful, I've seen that even when people do so, it does very little, so if you'll forgive me this is more of a "vibes" based post, getting just the general feeling of the new patch and such.

It is awful.

Evade vs Evade should not be 5 turns of no one hitting each other, because no one has an evade ignore.

This further trashes races like Hyattr (and oni) who are often considered bad races purely because low base SKI.

Further trashes daggers, which were already considered bad.

Punishes your average player that might not have ridiculous numbers or class tools to just deal with it.

Evade is incredibly potent and frustrating, missing an Evadie, spends your turn, spends your CD, puts you in a position where you're vulnerable to that very same evade, (who are often glass cannons, my evade can one turn most builds if in melee range), and gets you absolutely nothing, you were better off just skipping your turn.

Spending turns to position yourself to try and hit an evadie who doesn't have their back covered shouldn't lower your hit. I don't even know how this aspect isn't considered in a roleplaying game, it is optimal to not be seeing the attack coming to dodge it.. A game that had light RP elements would get grilled for this, this is a game where roleplay is the focus of the experience.

[Trexmaster]

Flanking used to be how you'd break Evade stalemates, now you just wait until someone hits the 5%.

The deck's massively stacked in Evade's favor as evade ignores become increasingly sparse.

I know it's funny to see this discourse after past bemoaning of how Evade is so easily circumvented, but we've all always acknowledged that with how Evade is designed, it's either going to perform terribly or amazingly.

The best compromise I can think of is to raise Minimum Hit by like, 20% every time you miss or glance until you get a clean hit, then it drops back down to 5%. Or something along those lines, perhaps having successfully evading gradually lower your evade until you're hit? Could call it 'Attrition', any miss or glance lowers your evade by 5, stacking. The moment a hit check succeeds, you lose all stacks of it.

Anything to make it so the scenario of someone dodging forever is less likely. The 1 in 20 to hit is not relevant in most scenarios. You'll be dead long before you get that 1 in 20 if you were relying on that, it only really benefits monsters or punishes Pacifist setups.

It's difficult to come up with a nice solution to how polarizing Evade is without completely upending it. Old Evasion comes to mind, but in this meta that'd be far too little DR by itself and everyone would have to be a dodge tank.

GR2's Evade was a mistake.

[Poruku]

It was certainly a devastating blow to daggers, who now have little way to hit evadies aside from invisible weapon maybe. Either way, it feels a little bad that chivalry is better than stabbing someone in the back. Maybe we should add a talent for hitting someone directly in the back?... Since it's such a core element of the game, makes sense.

[Snake]

Y'all wanna see me speedrun getting Specialized Attack nerfed?

[Lolzytripd]

Flanking used to be how you'd break Evade stalemates, now you just wait until someone hits the 5%.

The deck's massively stacked in Evade's favor as evade ignores become increasingly sparse.

I know it's funny to see this discourse after past bemoaning of how Evade is so easily circumvented, but we've all always acknowledged that with how Evade is designed, it's either going to perform terribly or amazingly.

The best compromise I can think of is to raise Minimum Hit by like, 20% every time you miss or glance until you get a clean hit, then it drops back down to 5%. Or something along those lines, perhaps having successfully evading gradually lower your evade until you're hit? Could call it 'Attrition', any miss or glance lowers your evade by 5, stacking. The moment a hit check succeeds, you lose all stacks of it.

Anything to make it so the scenario of someone dodging forever is less likely. The 1 in 20 to hit is not relevant in most scenarios. You'll be dead long before you get that 1 in 20 if you were relying on that, it only really benefits monsters or punishes Pacifist setups.

It's difficult to come up with a nice solution to how polarizing Evade is without completely upending it. Old Evasion comes to mind, but in this meta that'd be far too little DR by itself and everyone would have to be a dodge tank.

GR2's Evade was a mistake.

So Gacha pity system for evade......

I think its an okay solution, it solves the same problem as a just putting hit vs evade on a distribution curve, but it just feels....idk

[Miller]

Guile is such a strange stat with these changes, attacking from the front has higher hit chances until a really high breakpoint. It feels like an overbalancing measure in regards to Shinobi's release, which has easy access to flank but... Yeah I'm not sure what to think of it.

All I can really say is that, at the bare minimum if this change is to be kept; main stat GUI weapons should get the old values of flanking to give them a niche, because as is... their hit rate is too low and their damage when fully built for is not high enough to justify potentially missing way more of the time.

Also yeah, fully agree on the evasion bit. Beating a dead horse here but, old evasion was a lot more balanced and could easily be reimplemented with some numbers adjustment on its DR and hit bonuses present throughout the game. Change current full evasion into glancing and change glancing into old GR1 evade. (IE: 2 evades successes = 60% DR + On Hit/On Crit ignore; 1 evade success = 30~45% DR)

[caliaca]

Spent a good amount of time watching Vale fights today.

Good god, this change needs a revert and badly.

It just... doesn't function.

[zericosmic]

Spent a good amount of time watching Vale fights today.

Good god, this change needs a revert and badly.

It just... doesn't function.

Saw some snippets of that, shit is so wack it's funny.

If there's one positive about it, it is how funny and absurd it is now that people are facing the wall to get optimal evade.

It is now SL2 canon that not looking at your opponent makes you better at dodging their attacks.

[Autumn]

I do think that being up against a dense object that isn't the flanker should count as being flanked, at the very least.

[Shujin]

Genuinely think the flanking needs to be reversed.

It was strong, sure. But its also kinda needed and the conditionals were pretty hard/clever to pull off for full flanking in duels. Kinda liked that, for the reward to be good as well.