[Poruku]

Undead evil nation with lich or another undead race would be fuckin awesome

[TheGhostlyKnight]

I just want Dullahan man, I'd sell my soul for them.

Yokoshura is only friendly due to player actions aswell, odds are with whatever undead nation happened. It would most likely turn the same unfortunately. But that's whatever.


Putting the undead races through some "korvara beam" if you will to make them another created in a similar manner would frankly be horrible, repetitive, and just kind of boring. We have HOW many "Created" races now? 5? We don't need more, please have them be unique I beg.

More inhuman races would be a blessing.

[the homestuck man himself]

As one of the many people who champion for more inhuman races: Fuck yeah.

Even with the previous reputation that races like liches held back in the day, I still think they can have a place (and a very good one at that) in Korvara, specially with its more nature focused thematics. Doesn't even (and shouldnt please for the love of god) need to be converted into a 'created' race. 

One idea I had in mind, at least as a replacement for liches, is to make an undead category for races. Lump in a type of PC zombie, skeletons, ghosts, barghests and whatever else, be it in limited amounts or free for people to play with. Same thing goes to dullahans but without much of a change, if any, they fit pretty well already. 

In my opinion, races being lopped off due to lack of 'trust' on the playerbase just cuts the sapling off before the tree can grow. Yes, sans liches were a thing, yes, it might be unlikely to see someone playing with some innate 'evil' or 'bad' aspects of a race in the open, but that doesn't mean that someone won't, even more now as the playerbase has been getting some newcomers that are staying more than a few days. That's boundless potential just waiting to be unleashed. 

tldr: bring in the skeletons its gonna be fun this gets a thumbs up

[Turadis]

I'd like to shine a light on what Dev brought up as one of the main issues with this, which I'm not seeing being addressed.

Specifically, the conditional immortality for Liches and Vampires. Because these races can infinitely resurrect themselves after death unless killed in excruciatingly specific circumstances (In a location of their choosing no less), we had a recurring issue where these characters were effectively immune to all consequences. Yes, even moreso then basically everyone already is. It was a running joke in the guard force that vampires would usually just behead themselves at the first sign of trouble, rather then risk being arrested for even a few days.

Whether or not the original RP dynamic of Korvara is even really still the intended direction of the expansion, I do get the impression that consequences mattering more is something Dev wants to see. So the races would in fact need some kind of lore rework for their existence not to be a massively negative impact on the world at large. That and addressing this specific issue could nip like at least 30% of the bad RP these races were so infamous for in the bud.

It could be as simple as giving Vampires simpler rules, like being able to survive anything so long as their brain/heart is intact, but doing away with Misting entirely. for Liches you could say their phylactery needs to be within a few meters to function, basically necessitating they carry it on their person. Just spitballing here.

[Poruku]

My first post does mention that. Dev can just remove that, it's his game he can do what he wants.

People keep bringing this up as if it's impossible to make a change to it. Like with every other "problem" with the race, there is a fix, a solution. In most cases it's a simple matter of writing new lore!

[Snake]

The only one who's an actual big deal is Lich, Dullahan is more a case of someone's ending becoming that, but once those die or get exorcised, they're gone for good, unlike Liches as Tura has said.

[the REAL Minos Prime]

I'd like to shine a light on what Dev brought up as one of the main issues with this, which I'm not seeing being addressed.

Specifically, the conditional immortality for Liches and Vampires. Because these races can infinitely resurrect themselves after death unless killed in excruciatingly specific circumstances (In a location of their choosing no less), we had a recurring issue where these characters were effectively immune to all consequences. Yes, even moreso then basically everyone already is. It was a running joke in the guard force that vampires would usually just behead themselves at the first sign of trouble, rather then risk being arrested for even a few days.

Whether or not the original RP dynamic of Korvara is even really still the intended direction of the expansion, I do get the impression that consequences mattering more is something Dev wants to see. So the races would in fact need some kind of lore rework for their existence not to be a massively negative impact on the world at large. That and addressing this specific issue could nip like at least 30% of the bad RP these races were so infamous for in the bud.

It could be as simple as giving Vampires simpler rules, like being able to survive anything so long as their brain/heart is intact, but doing away with Misting entirely. for Liches you could say their phylactery needs to be within a few meters to function, basically necessitating they carry it on their person. Just spitballing here.

I'm personally an advocate of making classic vampire/monster hunting tropes apply to conditionally immortal races. Stuff like silver bullets, wooden stakes, or religious icons being capable of weakening and, eventually, permakilling them. 

These circumstances, whilst specific, are nowhere near as frustrating as the circumstances of G6, whilst still maintaining the vibe of an immortal, Dracula-esque undead mastermind. It also opens up opportunities for witch hunter-style characters, who carry with them the tools necessary to put down sapient undead threats for good. (And, hopefully, every single PC won't coincidentally have these undead hunting tools, so those witch hunter characters can actually play their gimmick). 

However, I do think making the undead races inherently antagonistic or part of an antagonistic faction on Korvara is a bad idea, at least for liches and dullahans. Vampires I understand somewhat, given they've always been getting up to evil political shenanigans in the shadows, but for liches I feel like part of their identity in SL2 is that, unlike other settings like the Forgotten Realms, they're more irresponsible and hubristic than they are evil, and only mad, purposeless dullahans like the Headless Knights are going out and slaughtering people. Furthermore, I don't really see anything about Korvara thematically that'd require sapient undeads to be evil. Nothing about Korvara's handling of the undead makes them inherently worse than they are on G6, other than the fact that they haven't been playable and thus we've been killing them without consequence for three years. Hell, given that more people on Korvara know about the existence of Dullahans compared to G6 thanks to Sharis and the Crypt, it's not unreasonable to believe that Korvarans have encountered at least one sane dullahan.

Tl;dr: Nothing about Korvara's vibe makes sapient undead unviable from what I can tell, and there are ways to make their conditional immortality a little less conditional.

[Tana]

I'd like to shine a light on what Dev brought up as one of the main issues with this, which I'm not seeing being addressed.

Specifically, the conditional immortality for Liches and Vampires. Because these races can infinitely resurrect themselves after death unless killed in excruciatingly specific circumstances (In a location of their choosing no less), we had a recurring issue where these characters were effectively immune to all consequences. Yes, even moreso then basically everyone already is. It was a running joke in the guard force that vampires would usually just behead themselves at the first sign of trouble, rather then risk being arrested for even a few days.

Whether or not the original RP dynamic of Korvara is even really still the intended direction of the expansion, I do get the impression that consequences mattering more is something Dev wants to see. So the races would in fact need some kind of lore rework for their existence not to be a massively negative impact on the world at large. That and addressing this specific issue could nip like at least 30% of the bad RP these races were so infamous for in the bud.

It could be as simple as giving Vampires simpler rules, like being able to survive anything so long as their brain/heart is intact, but doing away with Misting entirely. for Liches you could say their phylactery needs to be within a few meters to function, basically necessitating they carry it on their person. Just spitballing here.

The 'main issue' is a non-starter. Liches/Vampires doing that has been against the rules since several years before Korvara even launched, and danger levels extra-codified it so that there was no way within rules for Liches or Vampires to bypass the exact same consequences someone else would get. Per rules, anything that would kill a human PC, will perma-kill a lich or vampire. Full stop, that's the rules, circumvention is a ban. The real problem for years was people not reporting people doing it, and simply accepting it.

I've spent closing in on eight years RPing a vampire on sl2, and most every story of people doing that significantly predates january 1st, 2018.

I'm obviously not against these coming back, but I think app-only or some such would be nice. I don't think people will be too dumb with it, because when people got dumb with it they usually got stonewalled out of everything ever. I mean, even more so than usual.