[Druby]

So, while this post is probably straying rather off-topic from the intentions of Trex's initial opening post, I want to take an opportunity to reply to Filia since there are a number of things she's stated that I disagree with.

I suppose the biggest and primary point is that I really don't think it'd be possible to appease both sides of the crowd here. Both sides here on the casual and more hardcore side, as I've taken to impromptu calling them, want very different things out of an RP environment that can clash very directly. I don't want to say it's impossible, but writing rules and maintaining systems that appease both without being half-assed would be an incredible amount of work and effort that I don't think can be expected out of your average community.

Speaking as to my own personal experiences during the first days of Korvara, which was much closer in line to what I believe was advertised (it had a lot of issues, but it was certainly a lot more fluid and dynamic) I disliked my time on the game. I played Geladyne's only real military officer (at the time) short of the Regiseur, and got involved in some of the politicking, and god I ended up hating it. I basically had to log on everyday in order to keep up with things with just how hectic and fast things became. I can understand why something like that would be appealing to others, and I was unemployed at the time, so I was able to keep up, but now I'm going back to college, I have a grandmother with health issues, I have other hobbies, and so on. I do not want something I consider a casual hobby to become a job. I can certainly point to things that happened during this time that were fun or very cool. I got to participate in couping Lexaly as one of the major players, actively having had my character take part in the fight that played out. There is absolutely something to be said about the kind of experiences that offers. But the hassle isn't worth it in my opinion, and in combination with a couple of other factors, made me drop Korvara and SL2 entirely for about two years after that because I disliked the environment Korvara brought.

Beyond that, while I won't name any names, I actively watched people I consider friends became worse people over the course of Korvara. Of course, that could be taken as a bit of hyperbole, it's not like people were doing anything heinous, but actively I saw friends pivot much harder towards PVP as people anticipated potential conflict and for things like that to matter. Older, or more experienced players, had the edge naturally, and then some of my friends began to let it stroke their ego, or actively trying to "flex" on other people. I saw them get entrenched in factionalism and bickering between cliques (not that this wasn't  around previously, but I watched it get worse). To a certain degree, this sort of activity is everywhere in any online community, but seeing it happen to people I had considered to overall be cool guys and mostly above all of that, which is why I hung out with them in the first place, was a real fucking dampener on my spirits. Hell, even I started to fall victim a bit to that mentality, as I remember my time in Geladyne politics being a bit heated in private on a few occasions. All of that, which I consider as things that just come with an RP environment which Korvara advertises itself to be, is not what I'm on SL2 for. I'm not saying SL2 should be a stagnant nothing which never ever changes or has anything happen, but I'm personally against extreme player freedoms where anything goes because of the kind of communities those environments tend to breed. And it's perfectly alright if someone else does want that sort of thing, or sees it differently from me. We just want different games or different kinds of RP at that point. That's not an issue. People can enjoy things that I don't. The issue I see is trying to make both of those things mesh together in the same place, because that's just difficult to do.

On another point, Filia mentioned that she believed "one side is snuffed dead" in favor of the other when it came to balancing the wants/desires of the casual and hardcore crowds. I believe that she means things are catering more towards casual players than the hardcore players with this statement, and as a longtime player at this point, someone from before Korvara, I disagree. From my perspective, it's the other way around. G6 and SL2 in general was previously much more of a casual kind of place. That's just how the game evolved with the community and its player base over time, and the reason it stood out to me amidst the sea of generally more hardcore RP games on Byond. The launch of Korvara to me seemed to be catering much more to the other end of the crowd. It's since kind of pulled back a bit, but things are still much more different than I'd recall them being back in the day. None of this is any sort of accusation or some negative thing, I'm just making a point about perspective here.

Wrapping it all up... To be frank, if Korvara was to push more towards what I believe Filia to be advocating for the game, I'd probably just leave. That's not a threat or anything, and if that's how the game goes or how Dev wants to develop the game, then that's simply how it is and people shouldn't care what some random guy like me does. But, I was originally on SL2 for something entirely different than what I feel is being pushed for it now. I think it's totally fair for people to be disappointed in something they liked changing.

I'm certainly not the only player, and I'm sure plenty of other people have their own opinions, agreeing, disagreeing, or somewhere inbetween. But using the two of us as rough markers for the two sides of the coin. Neither of us seem happy with the current state of Korvara, leadership or otherwise. Korvara doesn't appeal to either of us in its current state, and we both want it to be different. I don't think there's an easy compromise. These two different environments are often found on very different kinds of games for a reason.

If I were to come up with some sort of ideal circumstance... It'd simply be for Korvara and G6 to be their own separate things, which is how it works. The issue is SL2 doesn't have the playerbase to fill out both places at once. No one wants to log onto an empty game if you're looking for RP. And so, Korvara as the place with the most activity, has to try and please everyone which just ends up pleasing no one.

[Poruku]

It's bleak indeed... I mean I try to be solution oriented, like many others, but the truth is that it barely matters how much we discuss stuff. Dev does what he wants, and it's never to fix the fundamental issues. And although we have much agency, especially leaders, we can't expect players to continuously pour out content for people and support all the rp on their backs.

Filia says it well. Yes I'm playing antags (not so much these days since I barely play overall), but I'm not happy about the hand I'm dealt. As an antag I would like the world to be more engaging, for my role to be better supported, for other people to also involve me in their stories and not just go out and do it myself. But people are drained, only a select few have the will and energy to "produce content". Whether it's international conflict or evil groups, it's always the same. We're tired, boss.

The fundamental lack of support for what Korvara tries to achieve, combined with the death of G6, has been a slow and excruciating death of this game for me and many other passionate people. Furthermore, although I purposefully try not to blame dev too hard since it isn't productive, I do believe it's his fault for not understanding what his ambitions required in order to be realised. It's his lack of planning that caused Korvara to have such a rough start, and his failure to address the issues that are constantly brought up caused Korvara to stagnate.

And now with Yokoshura, although I love to be optimistic, well the issue is once again that Dev makes something new and different instead of fixing the fundamental issues. Not to mention a constant focus on the rpg gameplay aspect of the game despite trying to create a roleplay-focused game. It's almost as if he wishes to ignore the issues in favor of working on things that are easier and more fun to make. Understandable.

But if we want to get somewhere, Dev needs to address these fundamental issues directly.

The casual players versus conflict enjoyers divide.
The lack of systems to do large-scale conflicts.
The reliance on eventmins and mappers to produce content for the game.
The reliance on leaders and players to invent problems out of thin air for stories to happen.
The pvp hatred, worsened by gr2's evade, which makes conflict even worse.
G6 being dead.
Etc.

When Korvara launched, Dev clearly and explicitly wanted war to happen. He wanted people to have conflict. But was he on the front lines of making this happen in character? Was he providing everyone with the tools needed to make that war go smoothly? No, what he did was task a small group of people with starting wars. Myself, shujin, and a few others were given the role of a "celebrity" and our task was to cause war because an eldritch entity told us do. I'm not kidding. And I would have loved to do that, but we were given exactly zero lore, zero tools, zero support towards that goal. Dev gave us one line, and said "go". Then silence, expecting us all to go out there and have epic games of politics, war, betrayal and trickery.

That's how Dev made Korvara in a nutshell. "Go, do a crime" ok where's my gun?

But I hate to blame Dev because he's clearly putting a ton of effort into the game, and I keep coming back because the combat and character building is just so much fun. However I do think we cannot blame the leaders for the failings of Korvara, and I have been guilty of this... We were all simply dealt a shit hand. Those who loved G6. Those who wanted big conflict. Those who just wanna do chill rp. The antags and the heroes. The EMs, the GMs, the leaders. Korvara was a huge dream, and we could only see glimpse of its true potential. Whenever I think of Korvara there's just so many possibilities I dream of. SL2 itself is such an amazing platform, but it's too ambitious.

I must also mention that the recent change to conflict rules was good imo, and I'm happy that was addressed. It mostly just clarified a few things, but it was needed.

So what is the path forward? We can't rely on people like Filia forever. Even casual players like Druby aren't happy with Korvara in its stagnant state. So what are we doing here? What's the move? We need a big shift, a change in Dev's vision. We need him to go back to the roots and work on the fundamental idea of SL2 and Korvara. But it's pointless to discuss what that would mean because he's gonna do it his way anyway. All we can do is complain on a forum, and try to enjoy the little rps we do have. Enjoy and appreciate the content people make, maybe help them out. Maybe start something yourself. But perhaps enjoying SL2 is also about lowering one's expectations.

[Trexmaster]

I am happy for the discussion that's been had thus far, and while slightly deviating from the original post at times I'd say it's fully within the scope of what I brought up. I wanted the community to be on the same page when it comes to Korvara's direction, Leadership being as stated, but one part of many.

I've talked to many people, and a common sentiment is the acknowledgement that things are not ideal or even detrimental to one's enjoyment. Even in this thread it has been stated the option taken is to simply endure what one is given and try to enjoy the game in spite of those issues. That is something I hoped to change, even if slightly, in prompting for an outlet through this thread to discuss and hopefully provide clear guidance on how we move forward in a more positive manner.

Leaders have had to deal with a lot and got nothing in return but increased scrutiny. What I'd ideally like for leaders is almost entirely on Dev, as stated in my original post. If nothing changes it may be for the best that the system is effectively shuttered and the state of leadership remains entirely in the hands of those who presently hold it. Which is how things basically are at the moment, the only real change being the acknowledgement that leadership is not the volatile high risk position the start of Korvara touted it to be. That it is intended to be something the player in question holds for as long as they are fit and willing to do so. With the understanding that inter-leader communication, while perhaps encouraged, is not to be expected. So that in the future others taking the role know what they're getting into and where the focus should be in this environment.

If that much were made clear I think it'd be a slight step in the right direction as opposed to the uncertainty of juggling the wants of both those who want larger scale interaction versus those who prefer the interpersonal over the international. Otherwise, well. If you want something else, something has to change.

Now I too will take the liberty of a minor deviation from my original post to respond to what Polk said.

"Myself, shujin, and a few others were given the role of a "celebrity" and our task was to cause war because an eldritch entity told us do. "

Come on man. Why'd you have to say Shujin? If you just said 'myself and others' it wouldn't be so obvious that I'm the third person in that list. We are a three man group and you named two of us when you specified we were the "celebrity" roles as you put it. I'd have liked to have been consulted at least before you aired out a secret that has been maintained for over three years now. At least, to my knowledge, in not outright being said in public.

Yes, I am far from happy myself with how that was handled, especially as the only person who stuck to their character of those roles. I do not blame either of you for not wishing to play yours actively if even attempt to continue them with how little we were given. I had to fight for everything I got just to make it reasonable why my character would even have renown in the first place, in a world where characters are hardly distinguishable from one another. My character's ability to heal is indistinguishable from someone simply not roleplaying the consequences of healing magic in the majority of actual scenarios. I designed them for a far more dangerous world that Korvara was initially sold as.

My character can restore limbs and bring back the dead, but cannot heal more mechanically than an Elf. That is my life. I can count on one hand the number of people that have died and did not wish for their character's death as a form of retirement. It's simply how Korvara ended up being, for better or worse.

I have and will continue to play the long game when it comes to trying to act the original role but obviously it will require some adjustments to conform to the reality of Korvara in its present state. With the cat out of the bag I can at least more openly work with others in that regard now, but I'll still kindly ask that folks not meta game this information. As I am the only person who really stands to lose anything for it now being made public knowledge.

My intention with The Mystic was always to be a foil to others, rather than the center piece. To enable the stories of others through what she's capable of or allow them to continue where they'd have otherwise met their end. While she was indeed intended to be an antagonist from the onset it was not to intrude upon other's fun in her goals nor her power. She always undersells herself and allows others to shine when possible. I know what I was given, even if seldom relevant, it is more than many others were afforded. Hence my desire to focus on others' stories, though given the restrictions originally imposed of being unable to communicate the genuine intent of my character. It made things difficult if not impossible for me to perform the coordination necessary without drawing too much onto my character or revealing too much.

Even if I may have preferred it done differently thank you for bringing that particular topic to light, Polk. It is a prime example of the original vision of Korvara, the present vision and hope of conflict pertaining to Yokoshura, that the environment still does not support in any meaningful fashion.

In a world where all characters are weighed equally, how does one resolve conflict in a way that feels satisfying? No one is trusted to truly throw any more weight around than another, regardless of circumstance, at an interpersonal level. Your strength ICly is almost always measured by the mechanical strength of your build, as that is the only thing beyond a contested dice roll that remains objective. Leaving conflict to be an attempt to compromise with those involved to find the happiest conclusion which more often than not leans toward upholding the status quo with the instigators punished.

Even if nothing changes in the environment from a development perspective I only hope to help others find and pursue what makes them happiest, as at the end of the day we all play this game to have fun. My efforts are in hopes of making things just a little bit better, maybe.

I'll continue to watch this thread but otherwise expect me in about two months for another banger in my quest improving SL2 somewhat.

[Poruku]

[...] 

[...] I'd have liked to have been consulted at least before you aired out a secret that has been maintained for over three years now. At least, to my knowledge, in not outright being said in public.

I have and will continue to play the long game when it comes to trying to act the original role but obviously it will require some adjustments to conform to the reality of Korvara in its present state. With the cat out of the bag I can at least more openly work with others in that regard now, but I'll still kindly ask that folks not meta game this information. As I am the only person who really stands to lose anything for it now being made public knowledge.

I'm sorry about that, honestly I figured everyone had forgot about the "other" role by now, it's been like three years... I didn't mean to "out" you by saying this, figured nobody would remember anyway... 

Though I wanted to share it because it's just a perfect example of Dev's philosophy. And I believe there's no point to keeping it secret at this point because it can safely be called over. You've taken the initial idea and made it your own thing. I'm the one who failed the most spectacularly, as I gave up when I realized my plans weren't gonna work without some help. And Shujin actually accomplished their goal, creating conflict and bamboozling people, even though it ended up rustling some feathers, I gotta respect them for doing what they set out to do, even if it didn't immediately cause all-out war.

I'm very sorry for not consulting you about this first, honestly I thought you had abandoned the initial concept in favor of your own lore and path. I deeply respect that you've stuck to it for so long, working in the shadows without abandoning the initial vision. It's really impressive.

Though I do think overall it's good to be open about things, at least with the people in charge. But it's just so impossible to get any corruption done around here. I think having some kind of evil mind control eldritch plot going on could be a cool way to go, but it would require some serious overarching planning. And trying to "influence" world leaders is just such a laborious, impossible task, and even if you succeed, you're probably gonna cause some OOC drama, as we've seen in the past.

I brought this up because it shows the nature of SL2 is much more complex and difficult to work with than one might think. Because every single element of the world is connected to some character that's connected to a player with their own goals and expectations, it's impossible to navigate this web without going against the wishes of someone unless you plan everything out in an event-style format. That's why it's so prevalent, and that's why all my antag groups have failed in some measure. Only small self-contained stories and planned encounters are frictionless. And I guess where this type of discussion inevitably always comes back to is that Conflict vs Slice-Of-Life isn't black or white, it varies from person to person. And I know I'm going on a tangent here but I think it hints at the core of the issue.

And it's actually more about Planned vs Unpredictable. Consent vs Disruption. Some players in SL2 are more prone to accepting things happening to them, their characters, and their nation/group/etc than others. Many players might want "conflict", but they might have a clear idea of how they want it to go. Maybe they want to win. Maybe they want their character to lose an arm. And the winner might want something specific out of it too. I think a lot of players struggle to "roll with the punches" and accept outcomes, even though that's what's great about interactive roleplay; your story is being influenced by outside forces. I've been guilty of this myself, and I'm not saying it's a grave sin. But it's the issue at the root of why this system doesn't work. If every player was indeed willing to "roll with the punches", at least provided that conflict happens in a fair way, then we would see a lot more good results, and zero OOC drama. But of course there is a reasonable limit to what can be expected. You obviously don't want your village razed without recourse after putting a lot of work into it. However if you do put a lot of work into a village and you reach a point of being happy and chilling, and things are slowing down in your community, I think it makes sense to become accepting of the idea of disruption.

We see this kind of situation happen often, where there's a sort of status quo being reached that makes an environment boring. One easy example is relationships, where often enough, even the most tumultuous relationship eventually becomes "normal" as issues are "fixed" and then one or both players gradually lose interest. The obvious solution would be to introduce a new challenge, perhaps a new obstacle to the couple or a new goal. Of course, it's fine to have a nice epilogue and move on sometimes. But often, you need an extra push to introduce a fresh element to revitalize things.

Anyway, point being, there's this concept of peace vs war in SL2 and rp in general. Interesting roleplay requires things to occur; problems, aka "war". The problems are then addressed, and characters interact. Once this problem is solved, we return to normalcy aka "peace". We take time to enjoy that peace, roleplay slower beats, relax. But then at a certain point, you inevitably want some "war" again because otherwise nothing happens. SL2 isn't like real life, simply being happy isn't the goal; the character's emotions are a means to an end, being the player's enjoyment (Those two things must be separated at all costs, but are inevitably related). Conversely, when there's too much going on, too much war? Then people seek some peace. "No more! I can't take another zombie attack!". Though this is less common.

So either way we often have people requesting and hoping for problems to happen, for war. Any perceived problem attracts people, who come to participate, either out of a desire to or because they feel they would miss out if they didn't show up. Then when the things do happen, it inevitably rustles some feathers, as many people's plans (conscious or not) become ruined, someone's vision is not respected, someone's character ends up in a situation they didn't want, even as a repercussion (facing ostracization in a foreign country, etc). The very people who asked for conflict may say "But not like that!" when the story affects them. People who do the conflicting actively might even be disappointed or feel cheated if their plans fail. Only a tiny fraction of the people involved got exactly what they wanted, if any.

To actually make a point;
This is why people are inevitably unhappy in Korvara. The web of expectations is simply too big! By making the entire server one big ecosystem, SL2 has become a game where you can't make any moves without stepping on someone's toes. This is because everything is interconnected. Each player and character, with their own desires and dreams. One player might desire something, but obtaining that something would mean pulling on a thread, that eventually comes back around to going against their desires. Players have become aware of this, and don't want to get OOC headaches. This is the root cause of stagnation.

SL2 conflict is a matter of expectations. In a one-on-one context, both players simply discuss and may very well be 100% on the same page. With each additional player, you increase the failure chance exponentially. With a web of this size, you need organization, or it'll become tangled and break apart. What you need is a blueprint. A guide. And I'm not talking about merely rules, but also immutable expectations. Expectations for leaders. Expectations for war. Expectations for expansion and new settlements. Expectations for borders.

We never got told any expectations from Dev, aside from "don't be terrible" and "follow this lore". But silently, he expected us all to figure it out and make this work. The "Other" role is simply the ultimate example of this philosophy. It shows that he did want war to happen from the start, but had no plan for it. It perfectly exemplifies why Korvara ended up... This way.

I'm sorry to make another long-winded post... I'll shut up now  :>

[FaeLenx]

I'm one of the more hardcore minded players when it comes to games like this, though I was hugely casual in G6. I think the biggest problem that's plagued this community comes from a quite frankly not surprising lack of experience with the kinds of community the original pitch of Korvara attracts. And my best observation comes from some early moment in the game's history for how it all kinda went downhill and stopped being engaging. I'm not sure what's happened in the time I've been absent in the game, and I doubt this is a pivotal point for everyone, but from the time between the role lottery and the first real big conflict was a mix of fun until it became a clear show of why this community wasn't prepared to facilitate any of the themes it had originally promised. Since then, every discussion seems like it's largely rehashing that point.

Role Lottery: Not just players that WOULD be banned, but also players that HAD been banned are elected not just the leaders but writers of important groups on the server. There's a reason 'Did not Delete the Lore Document' is still my community discord name as my first thing was writing most of it, giving it to someone else to tell them to finalize it and post it as the official leader, and then make sure I had a backup every time it was updated. Trying to interact with these people was a constant game of them trying to twist things around like there was already some competition at hand. Early chat in the leader-only discord channel often started with me saying things like 'we should figure out what we want war to look like between nations and how a winner is decided early off before anything does start so there's less arguing later down the line' and getting the response from one or two people of 'making rules just makes people play to win' or the more usual 'why are you talking about war are you going to try to start one?' In the few months after I took a step back, I watched as several conflicts broke out that ended with people just bitching on the forums, so I guess 'complaining' was the method of conflict resolution chosen. It was impossible to work with colleagues very often, up to and including what I can still just assume was an actual 16 year old trying to lead Geladyne needing to be told ad nauseum to stop posting weird attempts at making racism based RP into a thing, and the 'competition' were often about as bad at any sort of cooperation considering whatever the fuck was happening in Telegrad being cowboys at the start, wanting to be the birthplace of Engineers despite being cottagecore coded, and any time the lore was explained to them as it was originally set up (meiaquar being the middleman/benefiter between two ideologically opposed empires) they just kept trying to argue their way to 'winning the setting.'

I'll be as frank with that one as I can be. When it comes to people actually TRYING to involve other groups in their roleplay in a way that wasn't just fearful and wanting to win, I think Geladyne had it the strongest at the start, followed by Dueyei that was inclusive but mostly as a neutral party. More people roleplayed around being hungry and needing the other nations from Geladyne than I ever saw anyone Meiaquar try to be a trade organization (except one person who came up trying to strike a deal from Meiaquar who later got exiled for 'doing deals without the don') and any sort of actual interactions with Telegrad. You might think 'but they did a whole exile everyone from Geladyne thing.' Unfortunately, the one IC interaction that was made out of that (an arrest and then later a conflict) was met with only complaining on an OOC level so I'm not sure if that was an earnest attempt at making something of the original theme.

So that's all the starting problems behind a generally problematic leadership. What's the conflict I'm talking about?

That Name of the Place that Had the Weird Name that was Intentionally Hard to Pronounce, or their better first name that was like 'Beggar's Hole' or something:
Literally a group of people who would either get banned or get angry and leave coming up against the ONE opponent they couldn't fight and use their usual bitching to get by. I feel like this situation is exemplary for just how bad the community got with a bit of insight into what was happening behind the scenes and what it likely meant for the community as a whole because very often, this group and many like it would cry foul and claim the literal worst intentions from their opposition, pretend to be the victim, and generally complain over the discord and forums ad nauseum. But you have to remember, Korvara was MADE to be a place of conflict. I was elected a literal spy in a place of leadership whose main job was to cause issues between both my home nation AND the nation I was spying for (literally being told 'you can play it as scummy as you want' in fancier words) and so their complaints had to be worded in the way that somehow painted the other side as intentionally scummy outside of those boundaries. The only issue is that 'the other side' was, y'know, Dev.

They had a role whose job was to cause conflict by their own rules, and they were ELECTED for it. If anyone remembers the Role Lottery, you'd remember that THEY GOT ONE OF THE SPECIAL ROLES. Being the curious sort, I watched those four people who got those roles and the ones that logged on caused issues or made stirs wherever they could. I could be wrong, but I'm assuming the singular character they played openly in the longest time who went out of their way to start conflict wasn't just some power dream like the Beggar's Hole people originally accused them of being but a general position, inclination, and power afforded to MANY people.

I joined in along with most people from Geladyne because who DOESN'T want to get involved in the storyline being hand crafted by the maker of the game, but as far as I can tell nobody else around really planned things out beforehand besides them. I of course got on and started directing people to burn paperwork and maps saying things openly around town like 'well if we're saying we own this place today and they're paying tribute, we can't have maps that said we didn't own it yesterday' to anyone questioning why they were being asked to carry boxes to a fire, and that put a WEIRD TARGET on my back OOC in the forums and on discord. But they had to make the argument that this was a move to fuck with them, harass them, etc...

And for that, they had to insist that Dev was somehow being malicious.

And while there have been conflicts since then, both when I check in randomly out of curiosity or the couple times I've played since, most of them don't seem to be 'state sponsored' in the same way. My best assumption, and this is guessing at the mindset of someone who I don't know very well, is that this was a general wakeup call that THIS was the environment that they were trying to insist other people fight in and it was generally untenable. One of their quotes that stuck with me that I laughed at internally at the time for what I felt was naïvete was 'I had no idea it would be this bad' when the group they started this conflict with was stocked with some of the actual worst actors in the game at the time with complaints of harassment, stalking, etc. a mile wide behind them. Not all of them in there were bad, mind you, but most of the people who I'd consider 'bad' on the server at the time WERE in there. They took swings at me for having opinions at the time, accused ME of starting it all, etc, and I got to lean back and laugh as they were indirectly showing exactly what sort of treatment they were giving everyone else to the person who owned the game. Because, y'know, every swing that they took was a swing that inadvertently came back to the person who actually gave the orders and knew they gave the orders who, as far as I can tell, was trying their best to do well meaning and good intentioned damage control over a situation that WAS unhinged against them and they didn't seem to want it to spill out and affect other people.

I haven't seen every single event and conflict since then, but I feel that was the last 'real' war in the sense of hardcore players arguing around and for it. The other one I'm aware of (Meiaquar and Geladyne) was largely cooperative at the higher level and that is the only way a war can happen on Korvara. I'm not necessarily against this, of course, since the community seems against Extreme PVP scenarios for good reasons and bad reasons, but I doubt there'll be much more 'official' conflicts outside of that sort of cooperation happening. At least not to any large scale. And, y'know, from what I could glean that 'cooperative war' was slandered as well for every reason someone could come up with that would mask their true intention of 'I didn't like it because we started to lose.'