[MegaBlues]

a player should only be able to have one of each kind of trap out at once

being able to stack a dozen or more traps then yank someone into it or completely stop them from engaging you is silly

[Poruku]

So, traps obviously need a nerf, especially gust trap and excel hand trigger. However, I'd say this isn't the way to do it. Forcing trap users to constantly detonate their traps or place all 3 kinds feels weird and an annoying nerf that changes the playstyle for the worse imo.

Instead, I propose the following changes:
- Raging traps only increase range AND aoe by 1 instead of 2
- Level 2 excel hand trigger only gives +1 aoe
- If you miss with a trap, it doesn't trigger the status effect
- Gust trap no longer stops your movement entirely, it just pushes you during it

This already would bring the trap playstyle down from being completely busted to being at least somewhat reasonable. It might still need a bit of a nerf after that but imo it should at least feel more fair. Currently a proper trap build is potentially working with SEVEN RANGE AOEs, or at the very least, five, that can be targeted from four tiles away. That's enough range to hit someone nine tiles away, which is more range than 95% of things in this game. Reducing the aoe would at least force them to position the traps properly, reduce their crazy range, and make it less easy to stack 4 traps for an excel bomb, as you need to get the enemy in your blast radius. It gives more room for people to simply teleport out of trap range to avoid the explosion. In addition, excel hand trigger is by default a powerful ability, because it essentially applies your charges to multiple skills instead of just one. For that reason, it shouldn't be as powerful as the other excel crashes, so 1 bonus aoe sounds fair to me. It's still a good skill. Also, gust trap stopping you is ridiculous. Makes cheesing pve way too easy and counters certain builds really hard.

[Rendar]

FWIW.

traps no longer trigger their effects on glancing/evades.

And the other problem child with traps is that they get stronger the longer they're left untouched, without anyway to detonate them at range (for the opposing side), or pop it without severely messing yourself up.. and if you can't do that. Then they get 10% stronger every turn. Up until the Excel Handtrigger pops them for extra size + 30% extra damage (ontop of the x% increase from how long they've been out).

Raging gust traps are also a problem.. because they get an increase to their damage from being gust enchanted ONTOP of the extra range on placement and detonation.

The clear way to deal with traps is just have fire and wind elemental and laugh as Wind/Fire elemental trigger them and the person in question kills themself. But I genuinely don't think that "This thing is busted." "Eh. Fire/Wind Elemental deal with it." should be a proper way to fix this. Personally, I have a few thoughts.

1. Redo Elemental Impact with Traps. Raging shouldn't be the best one for all of them. Lightning Traps get to do the exact same thing (they fly to the person that triggered it).. but that, generally, will still be the same range as Raging Traps. Damage numbers are re-evaluated, and the other enchants actually are given a reason to exist.

2. Remove Excel Hand Trigger, or at the least stop it from increasing range on everything. A typical excel build will be engineer with bombs on belt so you can get the increased explosion size for all three. Allowing for a one turn Grenade Launcher > Bomb > Quickslide (Trap) > Excel HandTrigger.

Traps are just very unfun if you rely on basic movement, as Gust Trap just instantly kills your ability to fight back... and even disregarding that. Trap Hell being built into Swap Position, Forced Move, or Vanishing Strike can/will just immediately kill someone that isnt a dodgy.

[Shujin]

I still believe that having every excel 3 thing being an Autohit is absurd. What happened to giving things just some additional hit? As if they aren't hard hitting enough.

Agree though with the:
-No effects on dodge, I would include the push effect of gust into it. or change it as proposed.
-The other elements REALLY need a little buff.
-And if we do not remove Excel from it, which I think is techncially fine, atleast remove the autohit.
-Maybe the boost per round is a little unnessecary, or atleast way too steep in conjuction with excel. Typical episode of Multiplier times Multiplier being kinda bad.

[Snake]

I'd wanna see some of those Excel effects become protection ignoring rather than evade ignoring.

[Autumn]

I'd wanna see some of those Excel effects become protection ignoring rather than evade ignoring.

That's just moving it from exploiting one defensive type to another type, everyone has roughly the same HP Regardless, I don't think this actually helps and the Evasion-ignoring portion of Excel Crash should be changed either to Great Accuracy or just into something else completely, but that topic is about Excel Crash and not Traps.

Back on topic though I'll merely only express that I think playing versus Excel Traps is incredibly unfun, not engaging and I'd rather just simply not have to deal with them, traps snowball out of control even cause they gain 10% more damage per round, giving Hand Trigger excel properties just spun them way out of control and now something else has to go to keep them with that interaction.

[Poruku]

I think excel hand trigger is really cool and fun as a concept and playstyle. Problem is that it's busted. If it wasn't op it would be a lot more fun to play against. The evasion ignoring property is definitely one of the worst things about it. I mean imagine if dancers had a 1m ability with a 3 round cd that makes dances ignore evade. Taking away the biggest weakness of a playstyle is of course going to be ridiculous balance-wise. Same could be said about the summoner evoke autohits but I digress.

Great accuracy would be a good idea for sure. Maybe all ebade ignores should turn into great accuracy while we're at it

[Autumn]

I should have mentioned this earlier but I forgot, but I think the key issue with Hand Trigger's excel crash versus all others is that you only need to cash out once, you don't get 1 Fir that does +30% damage and ignores evasion, you get roughly 4-5 Firs at once that cash out on Excel Crash, if not more, it just snowballs way too much.

Because it affects multiple skill uses at once, it just gets to be too much.

[Poruku]

Exactly, which is why it does such crazy damage. Excel hand trigger could definitely afford to only have 5% bonus damage or none at all, especially because of the evade ignore property and the fact traps get stronger over time as well.

[sirtrex]

Perhaps the traps could have their potency lowered the more are on the field?

That way trappers could get an extremly powerful trap with all the bells and whistles , but would need to more carefully CC their opponent to get them.]

Conversely they could create a whole mind field to limit movement or spam a few down in a spot, but each particular trap's effect is reduced as a result.