[Fern]

Well, I felt like making a thread involving multiple suggestions for the game's balance in general. They're kind of simple:

[Kensei]

-Making the innates like Kenki, Sakki, Touki, Yomidori, flat numbers. I.E Yomidori making your attacker lose 30 hit instead of reducing their accuracy by 30%.

[Hexer]

-Making Fallcall's damage increase 1.5x instead of 2x.
-Probably... MAYBE make it so Strangling Etacof makes the Screaming Tome 1M silence cure cost more HP when the enemy is under its status. (30% HP cost maybe?)

[Demon Hunter]

-Making it so Matador doesn't give you rage energy if you take no damage. Like a friend once said: "If you feel no pain, what is there to be angry about?"

Alternatively, significantly reduce the rage energy gain if the damage hits 0.

-I think this has been suggested before, but why not make it so Desperado's Bullet Barrier doesn't work on attacks from behind? Blade Barrier can't do that.
-Maybe make it so Cobra's Snake Dancer can't evade attacks while knocked down.

[Evoker]

From what I've seen, this class tends to have it very bad against resist stacking but also destroys absolutely anything that isn't geared up against it. The only thing I'm able to think of is:

-Make it so you can toggle Charge Mind like Safety, but reduce the damage multiplier. Probably from 2.5x to 2x. It'd help mages test out resists first.

Alternatively add the toggle and make it so it increases damage -after- RES, probably.

(Maybe make it apply to mage spells too.)

[Rogue]

-I've seen someone else mention this, but might as well repeat it here. Make it so Evasion's damage reduction is 30% max instead of 50%.

(And probably bump Voidveil back to 30% reduction.)

[MegaBlues]

Kensei one seems fine.

A caster losing 100 HP to be able to fight back is not a good idea, especially since the silence can be reinflicted.

I have no opinions on Pizza Hunter, since I've never touched or seen it.

Testing out resistances doesn't help when your opponent resists everything, and as far as I'm aware, Charge Mind -does- multiply damage before RES. That's why it's so powerful.

Voidveil being 20% reduction and Evasion being 30% sounds fine. That's 56% damage taken from magic, if both go through. As opposed to the current 42% right now. (Assuming that Evasion and Voidveil are calculated and applied separately.)

[Fern]

Edited the post. I meant after RES, whoopsies.

[Soapy]

Innates: No support, they're fine the way they are. Tactician and Bonder both do the same thing.

Fallcall: Yes.
Etacof: Yes. Doubled cost for Screamer sounds fine.

Matador: No, the point is to tank damage, why would you be penalized for it? The real problem is Know No Pain being too good.
Desperado: I would've said yes before, but since it was nerfed for single round guns anyway, I don't see much reason to anymore.
Cobra: As much as I don't want to make knockdown even better, yes.

Charge Mind: Yes. Lowering the multiplier also means it can be safely applied to Mage spells, which would solve a lot of problems with the class.

Evasion: Yes and no. I think it's too good against magic, but fine against everything else (due to knockdown, and actual attacking). I say make it 6% per Rank for magic damage, but leave it alone for physical.
Voidveil: With both changes, would make Evasion+Voidveil almost the same amount of magic damage reduction as it is now, and with Charge Mind being weaker (in theory).. I'd say raise it to 20%.

[Ignored Knowledge]

The Kensei idea is a bit alright. Regardless of what is done with it, taking away 60 hit from 200 hit to a total of 140 seems a bit ridiculous for our current hit and evade ratio among items, traits, skills and classes.

I believe we need to buff the earlier classes up to the newer and more polished classes that keeps getting thrown in the game instead of trying to stalemate everything on an older scale -while the game advances and adds new things to influence combat. If not, I could see this repeating a lot whenever a new class is added or at least at this rate; Who knows how many more skills the next new class will have next time and how much it can do. What could the next new class do? Over 30 skills while old arbalst can mostly just shoot a fiery cannon repeatedly for what its worth? Which will bring us back here again with individual problems of it in comparison to other classes, items, possibilities and abilities as the new classes adds another different way to combat that was alien to the rest during their creation.

[LadyLightning]

Matador: Split Know No Pain's damage reduction up between multi-hit guns' rounds. If damage gain is split across the board, damage mitigation should be as well. Why should it resist 20 of a sniper's damage, but 80 of an autopistol's damage?

Retaliatory On-Being-Hit Effects (Bell Armor, etc): Divide damage dealt between rounds fired. If someone shoots you with a 4-round gun attack, your proc should be just as neutered as their damage.

As it stands now, multi-round guns are objectively worse than single shot in every way. Same damage, less hit, reliance on crits to deal said same damage (now that DEF is part of crit evade, this is even more of a problem.) Everything has systematically been divided up between rounds: spark drive is 1/turn, elemental impact is divided up, vorpal strikes are divided up, Evil Force is reduced greatly even if it's not explicitly divided (i.e., still worth it at +5 damage per shot when using 11-shot akimbo quickdraws, but most gun pairs get 4 shots, making it functional division), some abilities don't even apply at ~all~ to guns, like claret call or flank. Unfortunately, when you shoot someone four times, their bell armor damages you four times as much, and their fanged shield too. Why are these not divided?

Contrast with One Overcharge: You get almost twice the shell power per turn, you're overcharging which means you can use the +50 hit reliably, you can inflict 48% hesitation, which is huge -- on the same shell that inflicts knockdown, no less. You can do this from 7 tiles away without the aid of a Tactician, and even pump your damage up even more with excel charges and the fact that you can use Headshot with functionally no penalty.

If the intent was to nerf akimbo into a trap, congratulations. I still use it for character flavour, but every time I play Adelie, I'm reminded that I could be literally twice as effective if I had just built One Overcharge instead.

[Chaos]

LadyLightning » Sun Sep 13, 2015 3:18 pm[/url]"]As it stands now, multi-round guns are objectively worse than single shot in every way. Same damage, less hit, reliance on crits to deal said same damage (now that DEF is part of crit evade, this is even more of a problem.) Everything has systematically been divided up between rounds: spark drive is 1/turn, elemental impact is divided up, vorpal strikes are divided up, Evil Force is reduced greatly even if it's not explicitly divided (i.e., still worth it at +5 damage per shot when using 11-shot akimbo quickdraws, but most gun pairs get 4 shots, making it functional division), some abilities don't even apply at ~all~ to guns, like claret call or flank. Unfortunately, when you shoot someone four times, their bell armor damages you four times as much, and their fanged shield too. Why are these not divided?

Contrast with One Overcharge: You get almost twice the shell power per turn, you're overcharging which means you can use the +50 hit reliably, you can inflict 48% hesitation, which is huge -- on the same shell that inflicts knockdown, no less. You can do this from 7 tiles away without the aid of a Tactician, and even pump your damage up even more with excel charges and the fact that you can use Headshot with functionally no penalty.

You appear to have absolutely no in-depth knowledge on how multi-shots have worked over the course of Sigrogana Legend 2.
Multi-shot guns (Be it pistols or Spirit Hunter) have always been a DPS nightmare that's ridiculously hard to counter outside of very certain (and usually rare) setups and has shown to become a one-turn kill if given any substantial damage bonus that can't be split amongst shots (Evil Force gave Akimbo users at the time +120 near-guaranteed damage PER ATTACK). DH has only recently provided a solid answer against Akimbo users. On the flip side, single-shot guns have been notoriously easy to counteract, as they require at least 2-3 turns of setup and can be shut down with a proper Guard or even hard countered with an untouched Spirit Mirror.
There's a lot more to this matter, but this isn't the topic for it.

Kensei: Sure, why not.

Hexer:
-Why does it need to be nerfed when there's a good bit of setup required?
-This is completely needed. Silence insurance should never be shaken off that easily.

Demon Hunter:
-I believe KNP's Physical-only restriction outranks a 'no gain if damage is put at 0' downside.
-Bullet Barrier is limited by the gun's rounds per Round, so you can easily just shoot them out of bullets, then watch the rest fly in. Back-attack freedom with a downside like that? Hell no.
-I'm not quite sure if being on the ground should stop the slither of an agile snake....

Evoker: Honestly, Evokers have shown themselves to be gods in PvE but too variable in PvP. Changing this would require a much more in-depth overhaul to balance them out.

Rogue: Evasion needed to be set to 30% reduction yesterday.

[Autumn]

Kensei:
-I would not mind that since Yomidori can turn somewhat undodgy chars into dodge masters.

Hexer:
-Fallcall is a setup gimmick and really nothing more, I dont see few utilizing it enough in the amount of turns it takes to setup for a non-Kensei or BK
-The silence will be re-applied for such a large health sink, there should be ways to combat silence, but screaming Tome is far too easy, how about Etacof's momentum is raised to 4 when using it to cure Etacof.

Demon Hunter:
-I think Matador is fine the way it is.
-Cobra should most definitely be effected by knockdown.

Rogue:
-Evasion REALLY needed to be bumped down to 30%, its still pretty ridiculous and easy to build for.

[Kameron8]

Kensei Passives: Yes, long overdue. If you want to hit dodgey people, you have to take Kensei. If you want to dodge people, you have to take Kensei. % scaling outclasses static numbers by way too much. Every iteration of percent hit, dodge, etc, should probably be switched to static for consistency.

Hexer: Fallcall is gimmicky, but people love to hate it. With invocations being paper right now, it doesn't seem to desperately need a nerf, but hitting fallcall wouldn't be unwarranted.
-I won't comment on screaming tome changes, given that I don't think Screamer should break etacof to begin with.

DH: Feel no pain needs some addition like: 'cannot absorb more than 50% of the total damage dealt', or something. Right now it's a giant 'Fuck you' to everyone who isn't a mage, and a Game Over to multihit guns.

Evoker: Being able to hold CM won't address the deeper issues the class has with stuff like resist stacking. They need a lot of different things to be tuned differently.

Rogue: Hit evasion to 30%, please, for the love of God.

[Sarinpa1]

As someone that was trying to avoid kensei like cancer up until recently, I very much support the passives change. It doesn't devalue it, just requires some stats to back up that dodge/hit. It's ridiculous that I can stack so much hit it negates any sort of dodge with a mediocre 50 SKI.

As for Hexers fallcall, inflicting fear is not the easiest of tasks (Unless you warning shot), along with getting the invocation through. Overload is still instant murder for a DK and there is a whole race that laughs at fallcall. I believe it to be fine to be as it is.
Screaming tome breaking etacof is something I still don't understand...and if that feature HAS to stay, the suggested change is atleast good enough of a reason to bother with etacof. (Errybody a screamin' hoe nowadays.)

I don't agree with the proposed change to CM, but it wouldn't be too bad to see how it really plays out in actual combat. That would be assuming that changing it back would actualy happen in a short time period, if it would recieve too negative rating.

The changes to Evasion/Voidveil are a good idea, I'd say.

As for Demon Hunter, I agree that matadors blade barrier should not work from back. It makes it way too strong, it's almost equal to 50% damage reduction againts gunners. And that's assuming they are in each others range. It's shooting god damned bullets with MORE BULLETS. Definetly something more difficult than deflecting them with a sword. Cobras snake dance shouldn't get triggered by an AoE, in my opinion. How are you going to dance through a sear is beyond me. Along with the fact that despite it having a back attack weakness, setting a nucleus of an..let's say, Explosion, doesn't bypass it.
Know no pain is a chapter for itself but I believe others have it covered pretty well. Problem being, I never used a Demon Hunter, I merely fought againts it..and it seems unbalanced and unfair in many aspects. I think the class itself could use a very lenghty topic of its own