[PantherPrincess]

Okay so I can see why Icicle Spear would cost 42 FP due to the +50 bonus damage making it on an invocations level but I don't get why Crawling Spikes and Expanding Ice are also 42 FP. They have half the bonus damage of Icicle Spear as well as the invocations and on top of that Expanding Ice does 50% less damage on the 2nd use. I just don't see why their FP cost would be on that level they are not on par with invocations. I think they should be somewhere between 25 FP - 30 FP the max for the damage that they do.

[LadyLightning]

They're not on par with invocations because they don't take 9M to cast.
The idea is that a WIL-focused Verglas has 380+ FP, while a Verglas who
prefers STR or CEL has more like 200.

EDIT: Fixed typo.

[PantherPrincess]

LadyLightning » Sat Nov 22, 2014 9:59 am[/url]"]They're not on part with invocations because they don't take 9M to cast.
The idea is that a WIL-focused Verglas has 380+ FP, while a Verglas who
prefers STR or CEL has more like 200.

One of them requires ice point and the other requires Ice Point Guard. Thats 6M for Expanding Ice and 9M for Icicle Spear. Aside from almost costing as much as casting an Invocation (literally 3 FP difference), my point is they are too costly for 2 skills that do 25% of the damage of an Invocation. It doesn't matter if you have 380+ FP, you're burning through FP like crazy to do regular damage. At least with Invocations you know its worth the high FP cost and M cost because you're going to do massive damage. I just don't see why they would cost this much, you might as well just not use them and stick with Invocations.

[Rendar]

To be honest, the FP cost on these are pretty absurd. I don't even play a WIL Verglas. Namely because since their nerf to expanding lag, it's rather lackluster and FP costly. I could see these being put in line with the other Verglas skills, though I think you can reduce the cost on them since I think they're considered spells of the Aquarian Domain. < Not sure on that >

At the very least reducing them to 30 FP at best would make them more likable.

[Ranylyn]

Last time I played my Verglas, they still did over 100 damage (40 Will, 13 power weapon) in a decent area with Expanding Ice. The damage is lower than Spear, sure, but the AOE is incredibly easy to use, making it a fast favorite in clearing dungeons. While I wouldn't complain with an FP cost reduction, it's not absolutely needed.

It's like comparing Libegrande to Magaisendo. Yeah, Libegrande might have that higher single hit, but Magaisendo is just so easily spammable that it's a shame to pass up on.

[Grandpa]

Ranylyn » Sat Nov 22, 2014 4:34 pm[/url]"]It's like comparing Libegrande to Magaisendo. Yeah, Libegrande might have that higher single hit, but Magaisendo is just so easily spammable that it's a shame to pass up on.

Only in this case, Libegrande is just awful in comparison to Magaisendo because they cost almost the exact same and one does much more damage to many more enemies than the other.

Anyways, I don't think Verglas needs a change. The will based skills are all expensive for their own reasons and should stay that way, in my opinion. They're too strong to not.

[PantherPrincess]

Grandpa » Sat Nov 22, 2014 4:40 pm[/url]"]

Ranylyn » Sat Nov 22, 2014 4:34 pm[/url]"]It's like comparing Libegrande to Magaisendo. Yeah, Libegrande might have that higher single hit, but Magaisendo is just so easily spammable that it's a shame to pass up on.

Only in this case, Libegrande is just awful in comparison to Magaisendo because they cost almost the exact same and one does much more damage to many more enemies than the other.

Anyways, I don't think Verglas needs a change. The will based skills are all expensive for their own reasons and should stay that way, in my opinion. They're too strong to not.

"The will based skills are all expensive for their own reason" *Doesn't list any reasons why*
They have no reason to be that high. Literally not one. Their damage is that of an Evoker skill (libegrande, magai, sear, etc). If I'm going to be wasting 42 FP per round per skill I better be doing invocation damage otherwise whats the point. I'm fine with Spear costing 42 but Spikes and Expanding really don't make sense to cost this high.