[Slydria]

I think Meditate is far too effective at the moment. Even being 6M, it can recover a massive amount of HP and decent (or if you have the WIL, equally massive) FP.

While part of the thing that makes it -really- ridiculous is it's use with Crane Hop (which is addressed in the Crane Hop thread), I think even disregarding that, it's just too effective.

I think it's scaling should be reduced from SKI*2 HP and WIL*2 FP to just SKI HP and WIL FP (but I think it should also keep the halved effectiveness from Fear and Knockback.)

[MakeshiftWalrus]

I completely agree with this.

[Rendar]

As it is now; Meditate is far more effective than Powerup; a PROMOTION class skill from the same class. SKI HP and WIL FP are still really good; especially considering the fact that it also extends the duration of all positive status effects by one round. The main issue, however, is the simple fact that.. you can just negate the downsides of Meditate.

You go last and need HP? Meditate. SKI HP and WIL FP ((+25 on each)). Want to not get feared? You can be a Shaitan. "SHAITANS GET CRAPPY WIL!" Be a human, then LE into Shaitan at level 60. Knockback, also, can be negated by Spiked Treads (and fear can be negated with a red cape, for the most part). Sure, you don't get the 25% DR from Urazawa, but it lets you spam the ever living hell out of Meditate. This ability is just too good for a base class skill. Nothing, as far as I'm aware, gives anywhere near this much health and WIL in a single 6M action. It can be 'lowered' but SKI HP and WIL FP +25 (or whatever) is still r e a l l y good.

Honestly, SKI HP and WIL/2 FP is good. It'd put it at a 'decent' spot for a base class skill, especially considering before it was SKI HP for 3M and some FP. This increases status durations to make you an even more potent combatant, as well as giving DR if you can manage it.

Another 'change' that could happen, if not the lowering of the heal, is to make your dodge halved. Exactly like Body of Isesip does. You can't exactly meditate in the middle of a fight and dodge arrows flying at you or a swordsman in your face if you're too busy thinking and forcing your body to heal itself.

[Zakizo]

I liked old Meditate. I want old Meditate.

[Exxy]

Rendar » Wed Dec 30, 2015 6:57 pm[/url]"]As it is now; Meditate is far more effective than Powerup; a PROMOTION class skill from the same class. SKI HP and WIL FP are still really good; especially considering the fact that it also extends the duration of all positive status effects by one round. The main issue, however, is the simple fact that.. you can just negate the downsides of Meditate.

You go last and need HP? Meditate. SKI HP and WIL FP ((+25 on each)). Want to not get feared? You can be a Shaitan. "SHAITANS GET CRAPPY WIL!" Be a human, then LE into Shaitan at level 60. Knockback, also, can be negated by Spiked Treads (and fear can be negated with a red cape, for the most part). Sure, you don't get the 25% DR from Urazawa, but it lets you spam the ever living hell out of Meditate. This ability is just too good for a base class skill. Nothing, as far as I'm aware, gives anywhere near this much health and WIL in a single 6M action. It can be 'lowered' but SKI HP and WIL FP +25 (or whatever) is still r e a l l y good.

Honestly, SKI HP and WIL/2 FP is good. It'd put it at a 'decent' spot for a base class skill, especially considering before it was SKI HP for 3M and some FP. This increases status durations to make you an even more potent combatant, as well as giving DR if you can manage it.

Another 'change' that could happen, if not the lowering of the heal, is to make your dodge halved. Exactly like Body of Isesip does. You can't exactly meditate in the middle of a fight and dodge arrows flying at you or a swordsman in your face if you're too busy thinking and forcing your body to heal itself.

-Power Up offers Ki based on Rank, although with the Dense Thunder nerf and how buffed QHK is atm the only thing you really need Ki for is Magic damage on appropriate Monk Skills and Serpent Strike, kind of out-shined by Meditate after all that's said and done.

-Going last means you miss out on Damage Reduction, unless they skip their turn. [strike]Can't really point out the negatives of the Damage Reduction of going first other than your build may suffer at some point but I'm sure someone is bound to come out of the woodwork if I say that.[/strike]

-Why not change Knockback to Knockdown? Only way you can avoid that is if you've been knocked down already and possess the right trait, correct me if I'm wrong please.

Zakizo » Wed Dec 30, 2015 7:05 pm[/url]"]I liked old Meditate. I want old Meditate.

I second this, just keep the Urawaza effect and the +1 positive buff duration please.

[Rendar]

I actually refuse to have the Urawaza effect and the +1 positive buff duration if we're bringing old meditate back.

+25% DR, +1 Positive Stat Buff, 3 M and SKI HP?

That's ridiculously OP.

If we change back to old meditate; it probably shouldn't get ANYTHING other than the Urazawa effect being maybe +RANK HP or something.

[Exxy]

Rendar » Wed Dec 30, 2015 7:45 pm[/url]"]I actually refuse to have the Urawaza effect and the +1 positive buff duration if we're bringing old meditate back.

+25% DR, +1 Positive Stat Buff, 3 M and SKI HP?

That's ridiculously OP.

If we change back to old meditate; it probably shouldn't get ANYTHING other than the Urazawa effect being maybe +RANK HP or something.

My bad, completely disregarded the fact if we brought it back to how it was it'd be 3M, I intended on mentioning to keep it at 6M with my previous statement alongside what I had already said.

[Fern]

I prefer Sly's change.

[Ranylyn]

Just make it not work with crane hop and it's fine as is. I get that everyone always wants any and all healing effects to be nerfed since they hate needing to redamage people in PVP, but making it Skill based hp healing for 6m is pretty much useless, especially if it gets reduced effectiveness from fear and knockback.

[Soapy]

Slower characters can use it to immediately heal a ton, and there's not much you can do about that.

The healing needs to apply when it gets to your turn, not on the start of the next round. This is like a way more absurd Ingrain.

Crane Hop is another problem entirely, and wouldn't work with Meditate if it gets bumped up to 2M.